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Note: This is an automated transcript and misspells or grammar errors may be present.

Welcome to Courageous Parenting Podcast, a weekly show to equip parents with biblical truth on raising confident Christian kids in an uncertain world.

Hi, I’m Angie from Courageous.

Mom and Isaac from Resolute Man Together pursuing the mission to impact 10 million families and their legacies for the Kingdom of God.

We’ve been married for 23 years and are seeing the fruit from raising our nine children biblically, based on the raw truth found in the Bible.

We can no longer let the culture win the hearts of children, as too many from Christian families are walking away from their faith by the age of 18. And it doesn’t have to be this way. It shouldn’t be this way.

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If you want access to all the episodes, show notes, and other biblically based resources, go to be courageous.

Org. History.org. Join us as we start another important conversation about effective parenting in a fallen world. Hey, welcome to the show. Hey guys, so glad you’re all here today. Talking about should parents force their kids to go to church? Oh good question.

I know well, last week’s podcast did so well. I’m sorry you weren’t able to be there with me for the last week, but.

I’m glad you’re back. I’m feeling better. Thanks for everybody’s prayers. Yes. And if you’re on YouTube, you see my USA hat? It’s because it’s inauguration day. So happy inauguration day for America.

That’s right. All right, so should parents force their kids to go to church? This is a topic that has been circulating media a little bit in the last few weeks. It’s an interesting question. We’ve actually gotten this question a few times in our lives that we do in the Courageous Parenting Program, which, if you’re interested in finding out more about, that, we have our own Be Courageous app with a private group where we do monthly lives in there, and we we do teaching and Q&A. And so the Q and A’s are really rich because people will ask pinpointed questions that really have to do with their situations. But what’s cool about it is that thousands of parents have gone through this program, and they get to benefit from hearing those questions. A lot of them, it’s like, oh yeah, that’s my story too. I relate to that, or I need help with that. Or maybe they haven’t been in that position before, but they’re anticipating that might happen one day and really wanting to be proactive as parents and be preparing and looking at what does the Bible say about these things. And so I just want to invite you to find out more about that at Parenting.com. That’s also where all the podcasts are. So anyway, um, but today we’re talking about this really important topic that is not an easy yes or no answer. Isaac. Right. Like, obviously, if you were to say, should parents force their kids to go to church? And we just said, yeah, they should force their kids to go to church, that’s a very black and white answer.

It’d be incomplete. It would lack an artful, thoughtful process of really thinking through. What does that mean? Because if it’s just like, yeah, force everybody to go to church and you don’t really talk about it. You don’t tend to the issues. That would be wrong. That’s right. But should families go to church, should parents take their children to church as often as they possibly can and then see an effort like, if we’re able, we’re going to go? Yeah. Intentionality. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Well, and if you think about it, um, it’s really a matter of modeling for your kids, right? And, and I think that that’s really one of the hard questions about it that parents need to ask. First. Why am. Why am I pushing my kids to go? Is it because I personally love going, and I want them to personally love going? Because that is a good reason, right? Or is it that maybe, maybe throughout your life you’ve struggled with. I’m just going to be really blunt here. Nominal Christianity, right, where you just go to church on Sunday, but you’re not really Christian the other six days of the week. And what I mean by that is maybe there’s no difference. Maybe your kids are kids are not seeing a difference in in your life where God is impacting your life and they’re frustrated by that. That might be a why we’re going to talk about a lot of whys.

Well, it should be warning signs that go off if somebody’s saying that on several different topics, which we’ll talk about. And so in Hebrews, uh, verse 1023, it says, let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And then 24 and let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the day drawing near. So the Bible literally tells us that we’re not to neglect the gathering, that we are to gather together as a church body. And sometimes people go, well, we are the church. Yes. In the church body, wherever the church is meeting. Yes. And are the people of the church? Yes. But we are supposed to gather together.

We’re supposed to gather together for a few reasons. Right. Yeah. Like we’ve talked about this in in different podcasts about regarding home church. We talked about it when we were planning a church because we did church the same way in both different, um, formats of church. Um, but really it comes down to listening to the apostles teaching, which is an elder reading the oracles of God and viewing them as such, and being very careful to teach the scriptures with biblical integrity and learning from that. Another thing would be just doing communion together, that God wants us to do that as often as we meet. Right. And so having that as an opportunity to be really reflective on what Jesus did for us when he died on the cross, and to come before him to confess our sins, to make sure we’re right with other people. Like that’s a good practice to be doing on a weekly basis. So you’ve got those and then you have worship and prayer, which we know are also part of the church. Meaning if our if we’re not going to church with our kids, then there’s a lot that they’re missing out on as far as learning about God worshiping him. You know, it’s interesting.

It’s interesting. The actual sermon now, we’re supposed that’s one of the aspects of church is to hear the teaching of the word. Right. But a pastor’s sermon today is a commodity, which means that it’s it’s normal. It’s it’s easy to access. It can be.

Accessed, get it.

Anywhere, anywhere you can stream it and these kinds of things. So what we have to understand and what we want our children to understand as they’re growing up is it is far more than about the sermon because the sermon can be got. You can get a super pastor online, but that is not church. That is a sermon you’re streaming in that is getting educated on the word, which is only one aspect of those things she was talking about.

Right. So even just reading that scripture that you said meeting together to encourage one another, it’s like, and doing it all the more as the day is drawing near, like we are, as the day is drawing near, meaning the coming of the Lord, the second coming of the Lord as the day the day is drawing near. Things are getting crazy in the world and we as Christians, all of us need that encouragement from other believers. We need our flames fanned, if you will. Right. And that’s it should be happening at church. I know that for myself over the years, like I haven’t remember this as a kid. I don’t remember missing very many Sundays as a kid growing up. I remember going to church every single week, and it wasn’t a thing that I ever like desired not to go. I always remember wanting to go. I wanted to go because I really enjoyed worshiping, I loved it, I loved worshiping God. I really enjoyed the communion part. I even enjoyed the sermons and different pastors more than others sometimes, right? But I remember even then, like taking my Bible, taking my journal, taking notes. I mean, when you met me, I was like all about it, right? And I had been like that for a long time. But here’s the thing. Like as as young, a young kid, I remember desiring that. But I also remember getting together with my Christian friends. That was different than what I experienced when I was at public school, right? Being able to see even the older people that I had developed relationships with over the years, and going to church there and doing life with them, I really looked forward to seeing them and getting a hug and them saying, good morning.

And I just think that there’s something missing. If our kids are not desiring going to church, then it’s like we have some serious questions that we have to ask as parents to really find out why they don’t want to go in the first place. Bring the joy of music into your home in 2025 with Music Academy. Song based by ear method. Instead of learning music in isolation. Music Academy encourages families to learn together. In fact, if you use my code courageous, you can get 20% off all your children learning piano, guitar, mandolin, violin or ukulele for less than $40 a month. Yep. Say goodbye to budgeting hundreds of dollars a month for just one child. He’ll take lessons. And on top of that, the method provides community and accountability, performance opportunities, seasonal challenges like the six songs of Summer, live feedback from their instructor, and printables to help them stay on track. The Vote Berg method approaches music differently, and instead of teaching theory, note reading, and tedious technical skills at first they skip straight to giving students a love for music so they can’t wait to sit down to practice with by ear training and song based learning. Students see immediate results and what makes it even better. They can earn visual reminders of their hard work with the Vote Berg methods ranking system that mails badges and rank pins right to your doorstep. So use my code courageous and get 20% off every month your family is enrolled and learn music in a way that sticks well.

And I just want to highlight the fact that you always remember loving God your whole life. So that is a big distinction from you and other children. And I guarantee you, at your church there were kids that did not want to be there. Yeah.

And so and they well and this is one of the questions that we’ve gotten in the in the courageous parenting program, right? Is like, oh, I have a teenager that doesn’t want to go to church. Should I make him come or not? Like, that’s why we’re talking about this, because it’s it’s a it unfortunately, is a common problem in the world today where and I think part of it stems I this is just I could be wrong. This is not like a biblical for sure thing, but my intuition tells me that part of it is this independent American spirit. Um, here in the Western culture, I don’t know if it’s the same counter culturally. Um, but I see that kids, they hear this terminology of, well, once I’m 18, I’m an adult, I get to do whatever I want, right? And if you have that perspective of, oh, I’m old enough, I’m independent, you can’t make me kind of attitude, then clearly there has not been biblical discipleship in regards to like even family interactions and who is in biblical authority and who’s not. And so I really think that it stems from how our parents leading their leading their families. Is it a child led home or. We’ve done podcast episodes on this, right that are like, is your home a child centric home or not? Or are you a parent that’s leading and stepping up?

Yeah, absolutely. I think that we should go into some of these things, these specific reasons. So, um, what is causing this? Well, the first thing you need to do is not just throw people in the car and go to church and not try and have that conversation in the bustle of going, do you know the enemy’s target is on the car ride to church? I mean, it is just clear that families get destroyed on the way to church. Often I hear this. We’ve experienced the battle, and I know other people do, too. And you’ve got to win the battle. So the day before, you know, can there be conversations with people you might feel resistance with one on one? Can you have a heartfelt conversation and discover what’s going on? Because just because you enjoy your church and you’re getting something out of it, it does not mean that mean that your children are. And we need to diagnose. We need to dig in. We need to ask questions and find out what is really beneath the surface that makes them not like that. And the first thing that it could be is safety.

Right?

It could be a safety issue.

Well, we need to know. Yeah. I think that when when parents hear I don’t want to go, instead of just saying tough, get in the car like you were saying, it does need to be a conversation. You need to have developed a relationship with your children where they can come to you way before that Sunday morning. Right. Um, and if you haven’t, that’s that’s a whole nother podcast topic. That’s that’s a parenting relationship conversation. But in when it comes to actually having this conversation, you need to have understanding I think is really what it comes down to. As a parent, do you have understanding? Do you know the why? Do you trust your child? Are they being honest with you? And and when you sit and you talk you talk to them. Are you hearing fleshly? Oh, I’m just tired. I want to sleep in. Um. Or are they just telling you that when really there’s a deeper issue? So you need to ask and dig.

What is so safety. So on safety. What could that be?

Well, just even I think about youth group or Sunday school events. And when I, when I say events I’m specifically think of sleepovers. That’s the very first thing that comes to mind, right? Um, because stuff happens at sleepovers sometimes, not every time, but it does. And sometimes kids will see things or they’ll hear things. Or maybe they’ve experienced bullying at the youth group or in Sunday school. Or maybe it’s as simple as like they think that there is a big fakeness that’s happening among the kids that they’re there with, maybe their friends at church on Sunday, but they’re not friends at school because they’re the popular ones and they’re not. Or, I mean, there’s so many different dynamics that could be taking place. But the point is, is as a parent, you have to ask, so you.

So you talked about. So there’s a lot of reasons there. So bullying uh friendship issues.

Physical.

Safety. Uh, maybe they’re feeling like people are hypocrites. Yes. Uh, maybe they’re feeling like they don’t belong or, um, that it’s it’s not really focused on God. Maybe there’s maybe it’s not purity there. Maybe it’s not fruitful. Maybe they feel like it’s a waste of their time. Um, but until you get it distinct, you don’t know where their heart’s at about it. And so you got to find out where the heart’s at about it. So then you can encourage them. So force is really the wrong word. What I’d rather look at is if someone doesn’t want to go to church, what is the real reason for that? And then having those deeper conversations to to to really understand, make them feel that I am understanding them, even if I disagree. I want them to feel like I understand so that I’m safe to talk to, and then we can have that conversation about it, and then we can talk about the whys, or we can shift gears. Maybe if they want to just come to come to church with with the parents instead of going to youth group. That could that could solve part of it. Or maybe there is a real issue, or maybe you do need to contemplate a different church. If it’s not edifying to your family, to your home. And so there’s things to figure out. Now, you’re never going to go to another church just because your kids don’t like church. Okay. That’s right. That would be being led by your children. Or I also wouldn’t advocate. Oh, there’s a youth program over here that’s really good. So we’re going to take the whole family over here only for that reason. I think that is not a good reason. I think you pick a church. First and foremost, the quality of the teaching. Is it biblical? Right. Do our doctrines.

Align?

Are there people trying to grow? There are the people that are willing to be hospitable, have experienced hospitality with you, have each other in each other’s homes, and iron sharpens iron. These are things that I would be looking for. So you can feel what the Bible says about what church is for. It’s the fellowship of the saints. It’s prayers, it’s communion. It’s biblical teaching and worship. These things are really important, but you’re not going to let the kids lead you just because there’s a youth program in there. Youth programs aren’t even mentioned in the Bible. So. So we want to focus on the biblical reasons. We’re at a church, not the non ones. So so those are some interesting. What are some other reasons.

Well I just think of the flesh. I mean I would say that there’s these you know maybe good reasons is what we were just talking about. Right. Like if a kid doesn’t want to go to church because they don’t feel safe, that’s actually a good reason that needs to be talked about, right? And then maybe that opens your eyes up to some bigger things that you need to talk to elders at the church about and or whatnot. Who knows? Right. That’s one thing. But then there’s this other topic that’s the really big topic, which is actually probably more what is happening in families. And it’s where a kid is just being selfish. They’re fleshly, maybe going to church to them, they it’s convicting. They don’t like hearing a sermon, or they don’t like being around kids that they would call goody goodies because they actually are not good. Maybe they are really struggling with the flesh, and they’re dealing with some sins that you’re unaware of, and that we have to take our rose tinted glasses off. As parents, to be willing to see our children for through reality, actually. Because if they’re dealing with the flesh stuff, then this is a matter of like, parents dig in.

The best thing for your kids is that they are going to be going to church. Right. And I would say that that is true no matter what the situation is. But you do need to have your eyes open at whatever church you’re at to make sure that your kids are safe, both spiritually and physically and emotionally. Right. But then also, like if there’s a situation where maybe it’s not spiritually safe, then as a parent, you step in like you bring that to the elders attention, right? And you go, hey, did you know this youth pastor is teaching something that’s wayward, right? And then they get pulled from that program. Like, there needs to be communication. Too many people just leave churches when they hear that kind of kind of stuff, and they literally don’t bring it before the pastor, before the elders, and then it never gets changed and it can cause bigger damage. But if it’s a flesh thing, like as parents, we need to recognize that your kids, we don’t we don’t let ourselves be led by our hearts. The Bible says our hearts are deceitful above all things.

So let’s say that a child that’s wrestling with the flesh because their love for God is low. And maybe they don’t even have a relationship with God, right? Um, or they do. They accepted Jesus in their life at some point, but their love for God is low. They’re focused on the world and worldly things and how they feel and what they want.

Maybe they’re making other idols and not.

Being part of the body. They don’t look at, they just look at what I can get. I don’t see anything. I can get there. So I don’t want to go there.

They’re not reading the Bible. Maybe.

So that’s not what church is about, right? And so they have a miss. They have a paradigm that needs to be shifted and how they look at things. And so having these conversations are really important. And you may not convince them in one conversation. And should you still go to church? And should they still go with you? Absolutely. But you need to be working on their attitude and and, you know, have an understanding where their heart is towards God and his church. And maybe you need to have that conversation where that’s the bride of Christ and what that means, and take them to Scripture and what that means. Bride of Christ. So, well.

I even think about like if it’s a fleshly issue, let’s say somebody is in sin and being at church, they’re convicted. Like, say you have a teenager that is actually going to the church service, right? And so for them sitting and hearing a pastor talking about communion, maybe that’s super convicting. Or maybe they’re looking at the lyrics of a song and they don’t ever listen to Christian music. Maybe they’re very worldly and they’re listening to secular music. And so a new song comes up. They’ve never heard it before, so they feel embarrassed. They’re all focused on themselves. They can’t sing the song, right? Or maybe they look at the words of the song and it’s and it’s convicting to them. And they realize like, why are people saying, I love you, Lord? Like, I don’t know if I love God. Like, maybe, maybe they’re really internally struggling. As parents, we are supposed to train up our child in the way they should go. Proverbs 22 six. And when they are old, they will not depart from it. So if they are growing up, going to church, just even exercising that that practice of faithfully being devoted to a local body of Christ, being an active participant, being the church actually. Right. Because church is not just a building that you go to, and maybe your kids need to know that. Maybe they literally don’t know that that hey, actually, we are the church. And that’s why we go to gather with the church. And it’s important. It’s something that God has commanded us to do, and it makes us better people because we do this.

I think there’s something that is missing, though. Overall, I’m trying to as we planted this church, I’m trying to figure out and solve some of what I’ve seen missing. And I know Angie has that heart too. And it’s just go back to what axe says about the church and so forth and what it’s supposed to be. And as much as possible, minimize the drive through effect of church where where.

People aren’t knowing each.

Other, where you go, you put your kids in, you sit in church service may be great, and then you rush to get the kids out. So you beat the lines, and then everybody’s hungry and you leave.

That’s not really that’s not being church. That’s not being the body of Christ.

And so I think that maybe there’s a problem, there’s a challenge there. And as children get older, they might be seeing that it’s more performance driven and more just sitting in a chair and not participating and not having fellowship.

Going, showing up and.

Leaving, and a difficulty to actually connect with people and meet people. And they might not be liking that. In addition, on a different problem there might be is there’s a lot of church hurt out there. Maybe you’ve been hurt by church. Um. And I’m just thankful as we look back. Have we experienced church hurt before? Sure. We’ve been part.

Of everybody has.

Churches that have fallen apart, you know, divided. Uh, you know.

Watching pastors be put in discipline.

We’ve seen a lot of things, but our faith is always in Christ, you know? So if a pastor falls, it doesn’t affect.

It doesn’t affect our relationship with God or our commitment to the bigger body of.

Christ, the bigger body of Christ. And that’s our encouragement to you. Where is your faith? Yes. And as parents, we need it needs to be in Christ. And I am so thankful that no matter what has happened, whether we were in a lot of the time, we were in big mega churches, actually.

More of our.

Marriage. And then we had some home church period of time, which were great. And now we’re we planted a church. And so all of our church experience, but we’ve always been committed to going. And that I think has.

Made a difference part of it. I it. I think that, yes, we’ve always been devoted to faithfully going. Unless we were like, very sick. But we’ve also been committed to participating. And I think that that is the that right there is a key ingredient for kids. If they feel like they are needed, if they are contributing, if they are activated as part of the body of Christ, if they’re appreciated, if they’re known, if they’re like encouraged to come and join us. Right. But when kids are not, um, encouraged to come to even the church meeting, which this is a big problem in the evangelical church, I’ll just say this is a big, big problem when kids are not encouraged to come to church. And that sends a message to kids. It just does. There’s no way that it doesn’t send a message. And I, I, I wonder sometimes if that message is part of the problem that we’re seeing in regards to kids leaving the faith by age 18. It’s like once they become age 18. In American culture, the society deems them an adult to make the decision whether they want to do whatever they want to do, if they want to get a job or not, all the different things. And there’s no, like, parenting Handbook that says, once your kid’s 18 years old, you do X, Y, and Z.

You don’t do this anymore. You tell them up front, this is the conversation that you have. Yeah, there are some people who have done some things, and it might have worked well with a couple of their kids, but whenever people talk like that, I always go, what’s the fruit like? I want to see their kids. But so many times you read a book and you don’t see their children to actually see, oh, are they activated for Christ? Are they an active member participating in the body of Christ? And so because that to me is the good fruit. Yeah, honestly. But at the end of the day, we have to ask ourselves a very simple question is my child loving God? You said it earlier, and I think that it’s it’s worth us spending a little bit of time on this, because if your kid doesn’t want to go want to go to church, then that means that they’re not missing out on anything in their own perspective. They’re not missing worshiping him. That’s a reflection of a heart problem with their relationship with God. Like for me, if I don’t worship him, that literally changes my attitude. Yeah. It instantly. That’s why I’m always telling moms, if you’re having a hard time setting the tone in your home, put worship music on. It’s hard to be an angry mom when you have worship music going.

And but here’s the deal if you’re not used to worshiping, if that’s not something that you have been doing in your home, that you’ve been training your children up, in which it says, train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he won’t depart from it. If they’ve not been around worshiping in in their life, then that’s going to be a foreign thing that they’re not going to enjoy or miss if they don’t go to church. Hey guys, I want to share with you about a program we’ve been loving at the Tobin Household Studies by University of Arkansas, Ohio State, and An American Psychological Association and more show that pre-teens who participate in art show increased brain activity in areas responsible for focus, planning and critical thinking. That’s why we’re partnering with creating a masterpiece. They offer award winning online art programs for ages 4 to 104. Get on demand access to drawing programs, art lessons, art history, watercolors, charcoal sketches, and so much more and all at one low rate for your entire household. Just a lesson or two a week can nourish your child’s brain in a really powerful way. So visit Creating a masterpiece.com to sign up today. That’s creating a masterpiece because anyone can create a masterpiece. You know.

It’s interesting because a lot I think a lot of families have delegated all of the aspects that are happening in the church only to church time, and when it really needs to be in the home, you hit on something so powerful, which is if they’re only worshiping the Lord when we go to.

Church.

On.

Sunday. Yeah.

Then they’re not loving, learning to love, worshiping the Lord because it’s so infrequent. Right. And so.

It’s not actually.

A part.

Of their life.

It’s part of their everyday life of worshiping the Lord in the home and literally.

As a.

Family, worshiping the Lord together. Yeah. People learning instruments, people singing together in your home, having a family over and worshiping the Lord together. And it’s not a church sanctioned event. It’s literally hospitality.

And that’s part of what you do.

With some of your friends. And that’s amazing. Or praying if somebody’s hurt, laying hands on the person that’s hurting your family and praying for them. Opening the Bible. And no, it’s not a sermon is not needed, but opening the Bible and sharing the scriptures.

Or reading to the.

Kids and them. Sometimes reading Scripture. And it’s not youth group and it’s not Church Sunday. It’s part of the family culture.

Is.

Christianity not by name, but by.

Action.

And by identity.

Yeah, right.

Like when we recognize our identity is in Christ, we bear the name of Christian because we recognize we’re an ambassador for him. We’ve surrendered our life. We’ve taken up his cross. We’re living for him. We don’t live for ourselves. So if there is a fleshly, selfish reason for why a kid isn’t wanting to go to church, it’s a good question to ask. Have they surrendered their life to Christ? Because right now they’re walking in the flesh. Now listen, we all struggle with walking in the flesh from time to time. Sure. But praise God with kids. That’s why he gave them the gift of parents to try to help them pull out of that. And if we don’t do our job when they’re young and be faithful with that, then it’s going to be detrimental to them long term in their life. Yeah. And so recognizing I just want to read from the chapter before that you read it, which was Hebrews 927. It’s interesting because I was thinking about, this concept of where is a kid’s faith at personally with Jesus Christ? Do they miss worshiping? Do they miss prayer? Do they miss? Do they even desire to learn more about the Bible? Like, would they go excited to learn about Jesus? And if they don’t, there is an element missing in their relationship with God, right? And I think part of it is in Sunday schools. Yeah, I’m going to knock Sunday school for a second because here’s the deal. I’ve taught Sunday school. I’ve gone through the education of becoming a director of Christian education, and what is very familiar is teaching the same quote unquote, Bible stories, which, you know, answers in Genesis has a whole thing on this. Like Sunday school teachers need to stop saying Bible stories because it’s history, right? First of all, it’s not fictitious. It’s real historical events that happened. And so that can actually cause kids over time, subliminally to not value it as actually being history.

So that’s one problem. The word.

Story is what.

The issue is, is.

The problem. It’s not fictitious. But the second thing is just using the same. And I’m going to say childish for a second, even though these stories are not childish. Noah’s Ark and the the flood was a very it was a traumatizing event. If you were to look at what happened, it was it was crazy. And kids would actually be traumatized if they thought about what it would be like to witness the drowning of millions of people, right? Or thousands, depending on how many people were there at that time in history. And recognizing that in Sunday School, they sugarcoat it to be this cutesy Noah’s Ark story for first graders, for kindergarteners, for second grade, third grade, fourth grade. And it’s just the same stories over and over again. So then when kids grow up only going to Sunday school, not going to church, and they’re hearing the same Old Testament stories or even some of the New Testament stories, the feeding of the 5000 and the little boy bringing the bread and loaves. Right. They grow up thinking, well, I know it all because I’m hearing the same stories over and over and over again. I know it all. I don’t need to learn. I grew up in the church. I spent 18 years going to church every single Sunday. I know it all. But the reality is, is there’s so much in Scripture that is not taught on in Sunday school that is actually taught on in sermons, should be taught on in sermons.

You know, it’s interesting when I teach the Bible at home, I teach all of it to all ages. Yes, that’s kind of an interesting thing.

And you talk more about that in the Courageous Parenting program and the discipleship session, too, where you really teach, like, how can a dad lead? I talk about how a mom can lead during the day while the husband’s gone, and what different things we’ve used as tools. So if you’re interested in learning more about that, go check that out. That’s the Courageous Parenting program. But there’s this verse here in Hebrews 927. It says, and just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. It says, so Christ having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time. It just continues on. But my point is, is here’s the deal. We all will die, and we will all sit before the judgment seat of Jesus alone. I’m not going to be there with Isaac. Isaac is not going to be there with his parents. Our kids aren’t going to be there with us. Each person individually answers to Jesus. And you know what the statistics are that this is going to happen to your kids. It’s real shocking.

It’s 100%, 100%. I’m 100% positive they will answer to Jesus on the day of their death. And we don’t know when their death is going to be going to happen. And so not taking our days for granted when we look at a child who is walking in the flesh, who doesn’t want to participate in church as parents, we should go, whoa. Pause. This is super serious. This is a salvation thing. Like, I need to find out why they don’t want to go if it’s if it’s fleshly. Yeah, because there’s a rift in their in their walk with God. And if we get that sin separates us from God, then we don’t want our kids in bondage. We want them to be free. We want them to have understanding for them to be in a personal relationship with God. Sometimes kids will act out too, if they’re not getting enough attention. And so if they know that something’s important to you, like you’re volunteering at church, they might also go, I don’t want to go just because they’re crying out for attention. I’m just gonna put.

That out there. It’s another good reason.

Another good reason? I didn’t even think of that.

Until just jealous.

Of their parents attention. Because the church gets more of it.

More of it. So here’s the deal. What would speak louder would be, I care about your soul. None of us are going. We are going to talk this out right now.

Yeah.

And then it’s it’s talking about the elements that we participate in. The worship, the prayer, the communion, the stirring one another up to good works, which is the fellowship part. Right? The breaking bread. Together we listen, we learn. We want to learn about the Lord because we love him and we we go through those things with our kids and we go, you don’t want to do any of these things. Tell me why you don’t want to do these things. I want to know why.

You know what? You just made me think of something really a good a good story. We went on a three month RV trip that was so good for our family, and we visited churches wherever we were, and that was pretty cool.

Yeah, I.

Don’t think there was a Sunday we missed. I mean, there might have been one, but I don’t remember.

But we’re not, you know, legalistic if there’s no church near us. But yeah, we tried the best effort.

We would do our own church. Yeah.

But best effort, we would go to churches. But when we came back, we were part of a church and they missed us. We missed them. And when we were coming back, I had a conversation on the on the travels back. We were just days away from getting home and we had a little family meeting. And I go, how do you want to reenter church community? You know, what did you like about how it was going before, and how do you want it to be different? And we would hear things like, you know, I really want to be more respected by these people, or I really want to have a stronger relationship with these people. Another kid would say, um, you know, I’m not sure if I want to do this thing anymore. You know.

I’m not sure I want to play after the potluck. I want to sit and talk to the adults more.

I want to get to know.

The the men more.

And I even remember one of the girls.

Saying, I want to. Can I possibly go to the women’s meetings? Can I? I want to be viewed as a woman. I want to I want to rise up, you know? And it was really productive for us to have this open dialogue with our kids.

And we all thought about how we want to reenter because we have a lot of the influence of how we experience church. Each individual does. And we can recalibrate and think about, well, what can I change about how I show up. That changes how people view me and the interaction I’m having and the substance I get from it. Am I showing up with a journal to take notes or am I not?

Am I showing up with my Bible for.

Just a legalistic reason? So people see me carrying a Bible? Or am I actually excited to open it and follow along with the sermon?

No such good questions. I feel like this is a mic drop moment, because how many kids might just be going through the motions? And because they’re going through the motions, parents on the outside might think everything’s fine. So even if your kids are just going along right, and they’re going, I think that this is a really good question for parents to ask, are my kids just doing it because that’s what they’ve always done? Or are they doing it because they want to? They want to know God’s Word more. They want to know more about the Lord. They want a deeper relationship with him or whatever it is. Right? And in that concept, we always say this to people, just adults just talking, right, that there’s this element of man’s responsibility in regards to your experience in church, and if you feel like you can just come and go and leave and nobody notices, that’s not just the church’s fault, that’s also yours. If you’ve not tried to get to know people. Right. Like what you put in out of it will be reflected in what you receive, right? And it’s true, because some of the closest friends that I’ve ever made in my life were made as I was choosing to serve in something that the Lord had laid on my heart. And I met other people who were also passionate about that same thing, and we were serving together. Right. And so one of the interesting aspects of that is that our kids can be a part of the serving, too. And then once they do, they feel. They feel connected to the body more, which is ultra important. They grow because they’re challenged as iron sharpens iron through serving. They practice. This is huge. They practice selflessness because serving is free. You don’t get paid to do it. And so when you’re serving the Lord in that kind of a of a way. It’s really a sacrifice, right? And it’s an act of worship that’s different than praising him.

People get.

So depressed. Children get so depressed when they don’t feel like they have any contribution to society, when they feel like they’re not important. And if, like if a week goes by and they stop doing something that things aren’t as good, well, what would I stop doing? And things aren’t as good and they can’t think of anything. That’s kind of empty. And so everybody needs to feel like they contribute or important. And if you want children to love church, then they need to see you serving in some way. And they need to see that modeled. And they get there should be opportunities for them to serve. You know, I like that because it’s it’s so good. You know, I’m really enjoying church right now because it’s really unpolished.

And that’s very true. And we’re in a tent. We’re in a tent.

And I just want to stay in that tent as long as we possibly can.

Oh my goodness.

You cracked me. I just think it’s so awesome because. And people just pull together and wipe tables down and set things up. Kids.

That’s right.

You know, teenagers, adults, um, those more experienced in life, people working together, I just I just love that medical freedom is something we all desire. And I think we’d all agree that in the last four years, we’ve really realized just how important it is to have a trusted, like minded doctor.

You should be able to build your medical team and choose who you get care from. Knowing that where you spend your money is a matter of stewardship and a desire to support local Christian medical businesses.

Absolutely. I don’t know about you, but I prefer to help support businesses that have a biblical worldview on life and health.

Here’s the problem more often than not, you have to choose your doctor off a preferred in-network list. And if I’m really honest, those clinics usually see such mass quantities of people that it’s incredibly impersonal and you walk away feeling like a number. In addition, in most cases, in order to be seen by specialists, you’re required to get a referral from a primary care physician, which costs more time and money.

We want to introduce you to a biblical approach to healthcare. Samaritan ministries. You can find out more about it at Samaritan Ministries. Be courageous.

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Samaritan ministries gives you the freedom you desire to choose your doctors and health care professionals, including. This is cool. Alternative care providers like chiropractors and naturopathic providers as well.

The process is simple and provides us, as Christians, a way to obey Scripture and care for one another as the larger church.

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I love that we send our monthly share directly to another brother or sister in Christ, to support someone going through a medical crisis or recovering from a medical need, rather than to some large corporation.

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When you sign up don’t forget to tell them that be courageous ministry or Angie and Isaac Tolpin referred you.

The links will also be in our weekly podcast show notes at Be Courageous Ministry. Org.

Well, it requires more people to actually help because we just can’t do it all either, which is actually a good thing for people, right? Because they’re needed. And it’s interesting because then it’s while you’re doing those that that’s when you get to know people and you get to know where their hearts are at, and you develop relationships and you can invest in each other. I think that before we wrap up, I think it would be really important for us to talk about the tone in which parents talk to their kids. If their kids come to them saying, I don’t want to go to church. Um, there’s one specific scripture that comes to mind that’s in Ephesians six. We talk about this in depth again in the Courageous Parenting Program. It says it comes right after. I’m just going to read verse read verse one. It says, children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. So if kids if parents are saying we’re going to church and kids are being disobedient and saying, no, I’m not, and they’re having an attitude, there’s an authority problem. They clearly don’t understand what God has commanded them to do. The next verse says, honor your father and mother. This is the first commandment with a promise that it may go well with you, and that you may live long in the land. And then verse four is a warning and exhortation for fathers and mothers. It says, fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. So if a kid comes to a dad and says, I don’t want to go to church. How would a father exasperate or provoke a child?

No answer.

We’re told we go to church, get in the car.

That tough or no, we’re going to church. Why? Because I said so. Right. Any of those kinds of or tough get in the car. Like any short. I don’t care what you think. Your opinion doesn’t matter. This is not what we do. Why? There’s no purpose behind it. Just do what I say. That kind of leadership is actually harsh. And it’s. It’ll provoke children big time to anger. And. But the Bible says instead what parents should do. So don’t do that. Instead, it says bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the.

Lord, which takes.

Time.

It takes time. Instructing them is like, why is it important that we go to church? Maybe you need to sit down and actually talk to your kids about why the Bible says it’s important to go to church.

So if there’s a child that’s having that issue, dad should go on a walk with them. They should go fishing together. They should go do something during the week. And with the purpose of having that conversation and asking, hey, you know, why do you not enjoy church? I don’t know, dad. It’s just kind of boring. Oh, well, tell me about that. What makes it boring for you? I don’t know, it’s just. I don’t really understand what they’re saying. Oh, okay. Well, what did what did what? The last time you were at church last week. What? What were you guys talking about? Oh, I think we were talking about we were in Genesis, or. We were talking about this. Oh, okay. Well, what makes that boring to you? I just asked three questions deep, and I showed you how to do it, which is being interested before you educate. If you’re too quick to educate, if you’re too quick to talk, if you’re too quick with an answer.

Which you never am, you’re.

Never going to know what’s really going on. Yeah, you’re you’re actually, in the whole scheme of things, a little bit being foolish and you don’t even realize it because you’re not getting to the heart of the issue.

You think you’re.

Fixing the problem, but really your kids want to be understood. And it’s hard when you are in the in the midst of trying to go to church, right? I get that. Um, you know, I would say too, that again, the the solution is more making sure days before you go to church that everybody’s heart is right. And I think that if you’re living out Christianity on a daily basis, you’re going to see signs that your kids are not going to want to go to church. Way before Sunday comes around. And so having that spiritual thermometer on your kids, being able to talk to your spouse about it. Find a way to talk to them ahead of time so that it can work itself out before then is going to be super, super important. But the other thing that is kind of hard in Western culture specifically is this whole that whole concept I brought up about 18 year olds thinking once they’re 18, they they’re an adult, they can make their own decisions, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don’t feel like it or I don’t have to. And what I would say to that is that if they’re living in your home, you still have an authority, and there may need to be an ultimatum of like, this is what our family is going to do. And and this is post, having already had those conversations that we’ve been talking about today. It’s not like this is the answer without having dug deep, right? You have to have the conversations with them. And if you believe that you have trained them, you have instructed them. They know the importance of why you go to church and they’re still being rebellious. Then if they’re not willing to follow your leadership, that’s a really hard thing. My answer to that would be to pray and intercede hard and but still be willing to have those hard conversations and say, I don’t understand why you’re doing this, and I’m worried about you and show care and concern.

Just remember, whoever’s rebellious in your home, if they’re older than others, they are a ringleader that will likely lead the rest in the culture of your home in the gutter. And so it’s really important to pay close attention to that. We can do a whole nother episode on that, but I hope this was helpful to you. You can find all resources. Be courageous Ministry org. We love your prayers. We love your support and appreciate you listening.

Thanks for joining us. See you next time. Hey, thanks for listening and being a part of the 10 Million Legacies movement. Go to be courageous Ministry. Org for more biblically based resources, ways to switch where you spend your money that support the mission and information about the incredible Be Courageous app community for believers.

Also, we wanted to quickly tell you about our six week online Parenting Mentor program.

Isaac and I created a powerful biblical curriculum. Here’s how it works. Each week, we release a video session with a downloadable parenting packet to make it easy for you to incorporate those teachings directly into your parenting.

This is an incredible, self-paced program. We cover everything from tending to their hearts, handling obedience to overcoming mistakes most Christians are making. But more than that, it’s a supportive community. You’ll have access to our private group in the Be Courageous app, live webcast, and direct access to us.

If you’re interested in joining our next online Parenting Mentor program, secure your spot now at Be Courageous Ministry. Org. That’s Be Courageous ministry.org.