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Full Transcript:

Note: This is an automated transcript and misspells or grammar errors may be present.

Welcome to Courageous Parenting Podcast, a weekly show to equip parents with biblical truth on raising confident Christian kids in an uncertain world.

Hi, I’m Angie from Courageous Mom and Isaac.

From Resolute Man Together pursuing the mission to impact 10 million families and their legacies for the Kingdom of God.

We’ve been married for 23 years and are seeing the fruit from raising our nine children biblically. Based on the raw truth found in the Bible.

We can no longer let the culture win the hearts of children, as too many from Christian families are walking away from their faith by the age of 18. And it doesn’t have to be this way. It shouldn’t be this way.

We’re praising the Lord. That ministry continues to expand and impact more legacies. We couldn’t do this without you. Whether you pray for us, give us five star reviews, or share on social.

Or even if you purchase courses in merch or join the Be Courageous app community, enjoy the coffee or support financially. We’re so thankful you are a big part of the 10 Million Legacies movement.

If you want access to all the episodes, show notes, and other biblically based resources, go.

To Be Courageous Ministry. Org. Join us as we start another important conversation about effective parenting in a fallen world. Welcome to the podcast. We have a special guest today on the show, Jeff and Jessica Robertson from the Robertson family. You might know them from Duck.

Dynasty or Growing the Dynasty. They had their own reality TV shows for a long time, and now they are working on different projects like writing books and working with orphanage and adoption organizations. And so we had them on the podcast today to talk specifically about adoption, about their experience in adopting their youngest, their fifth child, as well as the book that they have created with Brave Books, which is awesome because it’s a it’s an opportunity for discussions on this really important topic that’s near and dear to God’s heart.

I think regardless of where you’re at this episode, be encouraging will be helpful because we all have a role to play in this, and it’s important to educate our children on this too. So tune in. But first.

First, we just want to mention to you guys, we have that awesome giveaway with Master Books.com. If you go to Master books.com/courageous, we have a giveaway going on there. You can enter the giveaway to receive some of my favorite curriculum items. There’s three different categories based upon um, you know, the person who wins will get to choose which of the packages, whether they have little kids, middle aged kids, or older kids. So you got to go check that out. But today I just want to mention something that’s pretty cool about their kindergarten curriculum. For those of you who maybe are just getting started with homeschooling, or maybe you just want to give it a try, you know, when I first started, I was a little bit overwhelmed. I don’t know about you guys, but I was overwhelmed because I was like, how am I supposed to even know all the things that I’m supposed to be teaching my child at a specific age, and all of their age categorized curriculums come with something awesome? I’m going to show you if you’re watching the Be Courageous Ministry YouTube channel, you can see I’m showing you guys a book of the scope and sequence that’s at the beginning of their curriculum guide, and this gives you a basic scope and sequence of what the weeks, the 36 weeks of school and what you’re going to be covering entail. Um, what’s also awesome is that there are four areas of focus in each lesson.

And so at the kindergarten age, of course, this is this is the four areas. So there’s Bible rhyme time, life skills, ABCs and more. And so you start teaching them phonics. You start teaching them, um, letter recognition reading skills. But they have some really practical, good guidance for parents in the front of this curriculum. That is really encouraging. One of those is watch out for fatigue with your child. Um, with little kids especially, their attention spans are pretty short. And so they recommend when you’re teaching a new concept to keep it around 20 minutes. Beyond that, you’ll start to see some brain fatigue, some focus fatigue. And so as a mom of many, having raised nine kids and I’ve been homeschooling for over 20 years, I would recommend to moms if you’re teaching a new concept to start working on it with your kids, but then have them take a jumping break or a running break. Have them run around the house and then give them an apple afterwards. Whatever it takes to have some of those little breaks. And that’s one of the benefits of homeschooling, is that you can take that time to meet your child’s mental, physical, and emotional and educational needs. So anyway, check out Master Books.com Forward Slash Courageous to learn more about their curriculum. And yeah, let me know how it goes if you try it out and be courageous.

Ministry. Org for all the show notes, resources and so forth. And we so appreciate your support in Double Impact this year. Whether you listen, pray for us, purchase things or give, we just really value that. Let’s jump into the show or welcome back to the show everyone. We have Jep and Jessica Robertson here. Welcome to the show you guys.

Thank you.

Howdy. Yeah. So you guys, we are excited to introduce you guys to them. Maybe some of you know them from the popular reality show Duck Dynasty. Um, but some of you guys might not know that they have a lot of experience as parents. Why don’t you guys introduce yourselves to the audience? Tell them how many kids you have, a little bit of your story, if you would.

So I’m Jessica Robertson, we have five kiddos. We have four biological kids. We have one adopted child, Gus. Uh, we adopted him when he was three days old. Um, so he’s been with our family a very, very long time now. Um, and we have all the way from college kids. Uh, one graduates college of 6th May and down to an eight year old. So it’s a pretty big span. Yeah.

Yeah, well, we know all about that. Yeah. What was that?

So it was very loud at my house.

Our home is loud, too. Uh, but usually a good loud, but not 100% of the time. Right. It’s, uh, it’s a journey. Well, that’s great. And you have your own show, too, right?

Yeah. So right now we have duck family treasure, um, that I do with my brother Jace. And, um, has a. It’s a fun, fun project. We did it just as a hobby. Um, because my brother kind of got into it through Mr. Murray, who’s kind of the old historian on our show, and, um, one of my dad’s very dear friends. And, uh, never thought I’d really get into metal detecting and stuff like that, but it’s actually really, once you start finding some stuff, like we found a meteorite, it’s like, oh, this is fun. Yeah.

Oh, that’s really.

Fun for the whole family. I feel like I love doing it. I like getting outdoors and doing things like that. So even though I love other treasure hunting, I love like antiquing and flea markets and estate sales, garage sales. I have my form of of treasure hunting too, but it’s still fun to get out there and even river actually river. How we got into it. Jace was doing it and then River was interested, so I bought him a detector years ago for Christmas. That was his big Christmas gift and ended up just taking it over and being like, let me, let me see this thing. And so that’s kind of how Jeff even started doing this, because River was interested in doing it. So that was cute.

How did how did these things turn into shows? I’m just kind of curious about that.

Well, this one in particular is funny because, uh, Jason kind of bought the oldest property in northeast Louisiana, and, uh, it has had a lot of historical significance. And then Mr. Murray was like, Jason, you know, you can find stuff in there. And Jason was like, well, I metal detector. And he was like, that’s what old men do at the beach, you know, when their wives are mad at them. He says, I’m like, you know. But anyway, he tried it. And then they found some, like, old coins from like the 1800s. And he’s like, sending me pictures. He’s like, dude, this is actually really fun. So I just started doing it over at his place. And, um, I found like my first awesome fan was like a 1881 Indian head penny. And I’ve always been a collector. Like coins and baseball cards, comic books. Like I have a lot of. I have a lot of different collections. So I was like, dang, I can put this in my my coin collection. And um, we were just doing it for fun. And then Fox reached out to us and said, would y’all want to do a show about this? And we’re like, yeah, I mean, we’re doing it anyway, and it’s a lot of fun. So yeah, we’ll film it.

That’s great. That’s great.

So, so fun.

That’s interesting. Well, you guys just recently came out with a book. A children’s book, um, through Brave Books. We’re big fans of Brave Books. We’ve been huge supporters of them for since the beginning. Really? Um, because there’s a need for parents to have stimulating conversation, topic based, um, reading material, really to get those conversations started with your kids, um, and on all the different topics that they cover. Right? Like there’s just so many. And so when a new book comes out, you know, our kids are really excited. We have three little boys under eight, and they’re all into the map and the different activities and stuff, which has been really fun for me as a homeschool mom. It’s totally different than all the other stuff that we do when we’re reading books. It’s usually, okay, you guys stuff your faces with food so you’re quiet while mom reads the Out loud book, you know? And this one’s so much more interactive, which is something that we’ve really loved about it. But why don’t you tell the audience the basic theme of this new book that has come out a little bit about it? Yeah.

So here is it’s Dear Valor. Um, so it’s such a sweet story, uh, really adoption and just unconditional family love. So, uh, valor is a tiger, and he is adopted by lion parents, Fiona and Arthur. Um, and there’s a moment where other kids are noticing he’s different than his mommy and daddy and asking questions. And we kind of relate to this in a lot of ways of when Gus was little. Our Gus is a black child adopted into a white family, and even at like an early age of two and a half, three, he would ask us why he’s different. And so, um, you know, he obviously he asked his parents and obviously they tell him it was easier for us as a we just kind of hit things head on as a family. And obviously we’re really blunt about stuff like, obviously you had different birth parents, you know, so we talked about that when he was two and a half and didn’t know anything about what we were saying. Um, but obviously the Adler wants to learn about his birth family, uh, which we haven’t experienced with ours yet because he is still young, but we probably will at some point. So obviously it goes through the book and you’ll have obviously, I don’t want to give the spoiler of what happens in the end of the book, but unconditional love of family is what that the basically the end of the book is. And it’s a beautiful story of just no matter where you come from, how you enter into a family. Um, just that support and unconditional love that you will experience. Um, and so we wanted to write this book because obviously other kids, like you said, those topics are hard to to start, right? Even especially other kids who don’t.

They’re not they don’t know anything about adoption. So to be able to like, talk to other kids and they can empathize and see like, oh, his parents are different or, you know, it’s a different dynamic there of how they enter into the family. Um, just this past summer, we, uh, guest was playing baseball made All-Star. So it was another group of boys, and there was a couple other black kids on there on their team. And when I came up to practice one day, he they were like, wait, you’re you’re his mom? And I was like, yeah, I’m, I’m his mom. And they were like, they were so confused. They were like, wait, like, I don’t understand, how are you? His mom. And I was like, well, Gus is adopted. And they were like, what? Like it was like this. It was like they had never even heard of the word adoption and let alone talked about it, you know, and so they never got to experience that. So these books, like you said, with Brave Books, they give such sweet life lessons that you can interact and talk about. And they make it to where these they’re sweet stories where it’s not awkward. It’s not a it’s not an awkward or a shameful thing to say. Wait, can I know about this topic? Can I know, you know, how do we broach this conversation? So, um, that was just one life lesson that I actually experienced with Gus. And and it was like it was totally fine. They were like, oh my goodness. Wow. You know, just sit here and know that he was adopted. Yes. He was three days old when he came in our life, you know. So it was a sweet moment.

It’s so good. I mean, that means the book is for everybody because all children need to be educated on this, whether the family is called towards adoption or not. Um, we’re called to have an understanding and equip our children and understanding this because they’re going to have playmates, they’re going to have friends that were adopted. Such a good example. I did read the book, and it is really good, and I won’t give it away either. But, uh, he’s just yearning for something, yearning for connection with, um, his, uh, real parents, even though his adopted parents are loving and doing a great job in the book. And then it’s so sweet what happens at the end? So you got to get the book so you can see what letter he gets in the mail. It’s very cool.

You know, I would really like to talk with you guys about the culture in your family regarding a love for orphans and adoption. I’m just curious because as we were kind of looking into this and then we looked into your family, there’s a few family members that have also adopted as well. And so Isaac and I, we were talking about that for a while, going, okay, this is obviously like a family culture thing and wanting to hear from you guys. Like, what was it other than Scripture? I mean, we’ve got there’s tons of verses where Jesus sets an example of like, I’m not going to leave you as orphans. So obviously we see that in John chapter 1418. Right. Um, and then what true religion is, that’s another scripture which maybe we can talk about. Um, but why don’t could you guys share about how that family culture was instilled? Or maybe were you inspired by seeing some family members go through adoption? Like, what was that heart change? And was this like a family conversation?

So for us specifically, um, when me and Jess were dating, she said, I want to have five kids. I was like, there’s a lot of kids. I mean, I don’t that seems like a hard thing to do. It’s your body, you know, it’s kind of like, uh. Anyway, so we we go about it and we have four and I’m like, oh man, this is going awesome. And then she couldn’t have any more kids. And she said, I want to adopt. And it is in our family. And so we’ll, will Willy’s boy is adopted and we actually used to babysit him quite often. And, um, so it was always an option, but I was like, no, we’re good. We have four kids. Like, why would we do that? We’ve been blessed. And she wanted to. So I went to the Dominican Republic on a mission trip, and, uh, our church had an orphanage there. And just meeting those kids, it was it was just like eight boys. I get home and I’m just like, alright, babe. I mean, I could have took every one of those kids home. I was like, I get it. And I and I always knew, you know, it was there, I guess, but I was slow to come to it. I mean, I think it took God opening my heart and saying, no, this is what you need to do.

So yeah, the backstory too is like our church. Obviously lots of churches work, you know, with different orphanages. And I don’t know, it just always was on my heart to like, I don’t know, I was like, I could love any kid. If you put any child in my life, you know, I would. I would love them unconditionally. So, you know, for me it was. And that’s probably a mom thing is like it was easy for that to do that. And I don’t think I would ever get sick of having little ones around. So I just keep adopting if it possible.

But now we adopt a lot of pets. We do.

Have lots.

Of animals. I’m like not as excited.

But it was, you know, we were really blessed because when we when we first got married, Willie and Cori adopted Will and we kept him a lot when he was little bitty. And you know, I come I mean, I my family, we don’t have anybody adopted, but, um, my mom was a teacher and she always we took people in at times. We always she always gave and helped and gave Christmas presents to kids that didn’t have things we always did, like charitable things where we were aware of other people, um, that did not have those opportunities. And um, so for me, I was like, it became like, why wouldn’t we do this? Like, we have the love. We were fortunate enough that we could financially do it. And um, and so but obviously it had just had to come to that realization, like the Holy Spirit definitely spoke to him when it was his time, when it was when when he was ready, you know. So, um, when he came home, it took about nine and a half, ten months for us to go through the process. And we did a private adoption agency because, um, obviously we had other kids and we were filming the show, and we just wanted to make sure they were protected. And, um, we had a closed adoption, but, uh, yeah, basically a guest came into our life out of the blue that we got a phone call on a Saturday, went and saw him on a Sunday, brought him home on a Monday. It was that quick. So we had nothing. We had no diapers, pack and play nothing. So we went and got everything. And um, but we just knew at that moment, like, God put us in this, in this moment for this child. And he’s forever changed us in amazing ways.

Wow, wow. What’s what’s some encouragement for people thinking about adopting? But it’s overwhelming to them. Or they just their community. There’s nobody around them that is doing it. Maybe they don’t have any knowledge about it. What are some lessons learned and maybe realizations now that you’ve gone moved forward with it?

And we kind of like just said it’s like, you know, you’re thinking, oh, I’m going to help this kid. And he would have been or she would have been so worse without us. And then it’s like, the more they’re into your life, it’s like, oh my gosh, they’re blessing you and you. You just honestly see, like when I see verses in the Bible now about how we’re adopted, uh, sons and daughters of Christ, I’m like, oh, it makes so much more sense because we don’t deserve it. He didn’t deserve it. It just I’m just like, oh, that. I totally get that now where I did. Not before. Yeah, yeah, I.

Think that it’s not I would say it’s not always easy. We had a couple, um, opportunities fall through last minute like I’d already shared with the family. This is what, you know, we’re fixing to adopt this, this child. And so it’s not always easy, but it’s totally worth it. I mean, we, uh, we just. We were, like you said, we went into it thinking we’re going to bless this child. We’re going to change this legacy. And he’s more blessed our lives and and we’ve grown spiritually. We I mean, it was not always easy either, because genetically, they’re not the same, right? Even your own kids, they’re all different, right? You go through ups and downs with them and you could raise them all the same way, but they they don’t always act the same way. And what works with one doesn’t work with another. So Gus had some sensory issues and different things. We challenges we had to face that we didn’t have to face with our biological kids. Um, so those were things, little bumps in the road that were different for us. And, and it’s not always easy, but it’s it’s totally worth it. And God will always, you know, get you through those, those hard times and, and you’ll come out stronger on the other side. And I think about that versus what we were talking about, adopted as Ephesians one four and five, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him in love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will. And that that scripture just blows me away because it’s just affirmation of like we are adopted into his kingdom, right? And so adoption is beautiful. It’s biblical. And so, you know, if someone was thinking about it, I would say think more about it, pray about it, look into it. It’s not for everyone, but it can definitely change your life and it will change that child’s life forever. Their legacy will change forever.

I love what you’re saying there. I mean, I think that, you know, we’ve known some really dear people over the years that have adopted and been able to participate in doing respite care and different things as well, to be able to help as much as you can. And, and I think that while not everyone is necessarily called to it, like you just said, the church is right. The body of Christ is. And so that’s why I think that this topic is such an important one to be raising our kids up in and communicating with them, reading the scriptures to them, teaching them. Um, but this is the thing we all know that more is caught than taught, right? And living it out is is totally different than just saying the words like, oh, the Bible says this. And so for those who are listening, like I would just encourage you guys, if you are not in community with someone who has adopted like search them out. Ask if there’s any family in your church that has adopted or is thinking about adopting, and see what ways you can bless that family. Because like you guys have just shared over and over again that Gus has blessed you more than you thought you were going to. You know, you thought it was going to be the other way around more, right? And that was your heart was, Lord, help us, bless him, help us change this legacy.

Let’s, Lord, may you be glorified. Right? But as Christians, we’re all a part of the family of God like you just said, adopted into his kingdom. And so to to put that in another child’s heart that even they might be God might be calling you to adopt someday, right? Like that’s huge. Especially if we’re going to be people that are like pro-life and speaking truth about how life begins at conception and raising our kids up in that. It’s like, that’s the proof in the pudding. When you’re willing to adopt, when you’re willing to serve families that have adopted. And so I think this is like the book, in a way. And there’s another book that Missy wrote. Right. Because they also went through this. Um, I had interviewed her a while ago when that book came out about adoption as well. And I think that these are two good, like, starting points to even start the conversation with your kids. But then parents need to go a step farther, right? So maybe you guys could share with people. Having been adoptive parents, what are the best ways that people can help other families who have adopted?

Uh, I mean, I think just being an ear forum, I mean, kind of like Jess said, it’s not always easy. I got a buddy I grew up with, um, and they adopted not too long ago. And it’s funny because she’s has a lot of the same traits that Gus has had. Um, kind of, uh, my, my dad would say, um, it’s a little high strung. It’s a, it’s a southern way of being just kind of ADHD or however you want to say it. Now, off the charts. Yeah, kind of like he’s got a lot of energy, um, which he, we, we we’ve learned sports for Gus. Yeah. Super. I mean, he’s really gifted at sports as well, but it gets a lot of that drive out. He’s he needs to be moving like, all times, which is, you know, there’s a lot of people like that. I have a lot of friends like that. And um, so and also I will say I work so, you know, this this drove me into my full time job is I work for an adoption. We are an adoption agency and we do orphan care, but it’s called All God’s Children International and so you can definitely look that up at ECI. Um.org and, and, and we have a lot of resources about people who are thinking about adopting and want to know more about it and have adopted and maybe struggling like, oh man, this kid is not like my other kids or whatever. And we have some good resources. So yeah.

I mean, there’s obviously Pregnancy Resource Center is a different there’s an organization out of Austin because we lived there for five years as Foster the Village. And you know, they cater to like, you know if you’re a foster family his one of his our close friends here um, fostered for years and adopted a child through that. But they had a few come in and out. Um, but those are just like certain organizations that I mean, there’s some even in your churches, probably that you you don’t even know about that, um, you know, or just places that you could serve or or donate, right? It’s not even about, hey, I can’t give this time, but I can give this money or I can’t give this money, but I can I can give this time. And, um, you know, just having a support system is awesome because it takes a village. It. I mean, we say it like there is. We missed a ball game this, um, summer. And, um, Jason, Missy showed up for the ball game, and Gus didn’t know they were coming, and so my mom was there watching him.

But at the end of the game, he didn’t even know they were there till the end of the game. And he was like, all smiles and like, did you see my hit Uncle Jase? You know, did you see that hit? And so it was like just having that support. You don’t realize even that child, like he feels different. He’s felt different since he could realize. He said, I’m. I’m brown and you’re gray. You know? I mean, he’s always felt different. He’s also a foot taller than anybody in his grade. And, um, so he felt, you know, he feels he’s bigger. He’s also dark skinned. And, um, so for him, he just wants to fit in. What he thinks fitting in is, you know, and so, um, you know, just having that, like, being friends, like, we’ve had friends that will come and support him at his little things. And so the support system it takes to raising a child that already feels not a part of the family is, is super important as well. So just those connections, you know, friendships.

Hey guys, thanks so much for listening to the Courageous Parenting podcast. We just want to take a moment to highlight some of our awesome sponsors who are actually there making the Courageous Parenting Podcast possible. And so let’s just take a moment and listen to the sponsors, and then we’ll get back to the show. I want to share a really amazing personal testimony with you guys. The first 20 years Isaac and I were married, we primarily went the traditional health insurance route. Being entrepreneurs. In those first 20 years, we had nine pregnancies, one loss, and eight babies birthed Earthside. Each time we were pregnant, we felt limited by our insurance coverage when making the decision on where we were going to have our babies When looking into coverage for those births, home birth exclusions were a really big deal for us because of the risk of liability in case of an emergency. As we continued having babies later into life and being older, I was labeled geriatric. I was considered high risk, which made it even more difficult to find the care that I wanted with the assurance of support. Then, four years ago, we switched over to Samaritan Ministries, which is a health sharing organization. A few years into switching, we experienced another pregnancy loss and then we became pregnant for the 11th time. Still desiring to have a home birth. We were so blessed and surprised to find out that all our needs were shareable within the organization and that I could choose the provider I wanted. So we moved forward to have the home birth of our dreams. If you’re looking for an alternative option to being able to pay for medical expenses incurred in raising a family, and you desire the freedom to choose your own providers, including alternative providers like chiropractors and naturopaths, we want to encourage you to check out Samaritan Ministries at our link Samaritan ministries.org slash. Be courageous. In the video, we share how it works and answer a bunch of frequently asked questions. So check out our link at Samaritan Ministries. Org slash be courageous.

Stephen, I realize that we were getting too comfortable with the world’s vision of how to raise our.

Children, but Angie and Isaac have done in creating. This is literally phenomenal.

This program provided awesome scripture based teachings and just some really great practical applications.

This class has just really rocked my world.

It has given me the vision for not just the different things that we might focus on as parents who are trying to raise our kids biblically, like how our kids are behaving or what we’re doing with discipline, but also the things of the heart.

We now have a game plan to how we want to raise our children. We have so many answers to the questions that have been in our mind.

It’s not just these hypothetical situations or it’s not just this. Here’s what I think you should do. It’s let me show you where in Scripture this is.

Do your legacy a favor and your self a favor and just do it.

One of the best things that we’ve done this year, one of the best investments we’ve made this year. And I could not recommend it more.

We’re no longer.

Fearing dark days ahead, but we’re so excited to raise lights to be leaders for the next generation.

That’s so good. It’s so good. And you know, there’s something that hasn’t totally been mentioned yet, which is your marriage and what’s what I get the sense of is when you mentioned this, that God put on your heart to have five children, and then there was an obstacle to that. And in that moment, I think a lot of marriages have these kinds of moments in different ways for different things. And it seems in a lot of a lot of ways that the women, the wives get touched by God in some way. And that challenges the husband and, husbands are supposed to be spiritual, leading their families. But at the same time, sometimes we get busy, we have ambitious things going on. We’re trying to provide, we’re trying to do these things. And the best leadership is servant leadership. And listening to your wife and understanding what God’s communicating to her and then supporting those initiatives forward. And I sense that. But it sounds like, Jeff, it took a little bit of time. It took going on this mission trip. Um, because sometimes within us we there’s always selfishness. We’re fighting. Right? Everybody has a certain degree of selfishness. And, you know, there’s the expense, there’s the time, there’s the how is this going to work out, you know, and some people are even like, no, I just want to have my own kids, right. And these kinds of things. But if God’s prompting us to do something at one of the spouses, then the other needs to pay attention. And I think it’s really cool, Jeff, that you paid attention. Um, and I’d just like to hear a little bit more about what God was doing wrestling on your heart and how you came around in a in a selfless way, um, to lead this effort.

Yeah. Um, I mean, I guess I sometimes I don’t pay attention like I should. I always say when we talk about marriage, I mean, just us specifically is, uh, I always say seven years, but what do you say, ten years? I’m like first seven years now.

I think you said the first year, and I said no, it was the first seven years was hard. Okay.

I was like, we had to communicate.

Right?

And, and and for us and I think for a lot of people and my I have two daughters that just got married. So and I’ve told them this several times, I’m like, what happens is you you’re on different teams. Like you say, you’re on same team, but really you’re not. Somebody makes a mistake. You’re like, I can’t believe you did that. You’re in the penalty box. Whatever. You’re you’re mad at them. And then as time goes by, I think as God molds you, it’s like at some point somebody makes a mistake and you’re like, you know what? It’s okay. Yeah, you know, I make mistakes all the time. We’re on the same team. Let’s keep moving on. Once you get to that point, um, things like, yeah, adopting or just any big things in your life get a lot easier when you’re when you’re rooting for your teammate instead of just showing them all the things that they’re doing wrong.

Yeah.

I think too, like when you’re struggling, like, you know, you’re young and your Christian faith, it’s hard to, you know, let those things go. But when you can truly let lay down and surrender everything to Christ, like, you know, it’s easy to it’s easy for me to show grace and forgiveness to jump at that because I’m like, I, I need it every day. I need that too. So when you can really understand that, like understand what he the way God showed you grace and mercy, it’s so much easier which then everything else which are big things. There’s still big things, right? Adoption, kids, finances, whatever, every those are big things in your marriage you have to deal with and you should communicate. But then that trust is there, that trust of like, hey, you know, I mean, he wasn’t ready for a while, you know, to adopt. And maybe it was early on my heart because I was being exposed. And I also being a mom, I saw the miracle of life. I mean, I got to I mean, I always say the biggest miracle. Besides, you know, God calling me to be a child of his is getting to experience life, bringing life into the world. I mean, it’s such an amazing gift. So that probably played a big role too, in knowing seeing kids all over the world that needed just want a loving home. Like, why wouldn’t I give them a loving home, you know? So obviously that probably played a big role being a mom, you know, of yearning and wanting to do that. And we we were fortunate. We had four biological kids by the time we were. I was 28. We had four kids. So then in my early 30s, you know, early to mid 30s is when I was really felt like, wait, I really feel like we, I want to have another child, but I can’t. And um, so let’s look into adoption. And then I think I was 35 when we adopted Gus, so.

Wow.

Do you guys think that this, um, this heart for adoption has been passed down to your kids?

Oh, I don’t know.

We probably think.

So. So, I mean, for sure.

I mean, there were definitely times where, like I said, he was hard at times, you know, and we didn’t know how to deal with certain things. So there’s probably bumps in the road. They were like, uh, we’re I’m not gonna do this because you don’t. But I was like, I think as they grow and mature, they know, like, it doesn’t matter if they’re your biological kids or they’re adopted you. Every personality is different. God made each one. And you’re going to both have different strengths. One of one strength and one daughter is a weakness in another, but she has a different strength that the other one doesn’t have. So when you start to look at individually and and really just to see the goodness of God in each, each, you know, to see good fruits and you point those things out, then I feel like all the other things, like I said with grace, have showing that grace and forgiveness and mercy to each one is like they’ll learn that too in life. They’re going to need it for their spouse. They’re going to need it with their own, their kids, biological or adopted. So, well, we.

Talk a lot about leaving a legacy of faith, a multi-generational legacy. And just, Jeff, you know, looking at Phil’s story had a lot of people are probably familiar with your dad’s story now because there’s a movie out. But, um, you know, overcoming massive obstacles. And then today, what everybody is seeing is children following the Lord and a multi-generational legacy of faith and adoption and fruit. There’s you can’t deny that there’s fruit in the family legacy. And I think that’s encouraging, because things don’t have to be perfect for a multi-generational legacy to happen. Um, but I just love to hear some of either of your thoughts on that and encouragement to others that are trying to do that. And maybe they have a broken past and mistakes in the beginning with when their children were around and so forth. I wonder your guys’s thoughts.

Well, it was funny because, um, remember we just saw something about dad saying, um, you know, it’s the little things you do that can make a legacy. It doesn’t have to be as grand as my family obviously has been on TV and done some bigger things and they they like to speak, I hate it, I hate speaking in front of people. I can’t, they think it’s the funniest thing ever. And it’s I’m gonna get up and talk for about 10,000 people. I’m like, that’s a nightmare for me. I’ve done it and I get super nervous and it’s like, I don’t think that’s my calling. I will do it because I’m not ashamed of the gospel and I will tell my story. But, oh, it’s it’s tough. So, I mean, I’m not called to be a preacher or anything like that, which is I’m totally fine with that. I was like, there’s other ways we can write books and and do even smaller things than that. It’s helping my community and just helping people to to see Jesus and to help kids. I, I do feel like that is a calling. And it’s something, you know, since we adopted that and now I work with AGC, it’s like, I love doing that. I love shining a light on kids. I think if we could help the kids around the world, we can change the world. You know, it’s not about politics and all this other stuff. People think I’m like, no, it’s kids helping kids who’ve been through trauma and stuff like that. Like that can change the world. So. But that’s what.

But but Jeff, you know, a lot of people, you see Christian families go up and the kids go wayward. They don’t come back to the Lord. Um, and you see these fragmented families and so forth. And I guess, what are some things that your parents did right once they got on track with the Lord and and the marriage was stronger and these kinds of things. What do you think are just a couple things that turned it around, for sure.

Just staying in the Bible and just realizing that it is the supreme word on all things. I always tell people I learn so much from my grandmother. Uh, I was basically a human trolling motor. We’d go fishing, I had a paddle, and I’d paddle around, and I’d made her hook, and she would catch the fish. I’d get them off her hook for her. I mean, I was a little kid, like, I probably should not have been doing this, but I was, and, um. And she would tell me about life and why what’s marriage like? And she would tell me about like when she went through the Great Depression. I mean, I just learned like, I, I think that’s how you can really impact your, your families, like, like let them know what all you’ve been through and, and how God has, has been guided you through your story. So it’s really just being a mentor for your family. And then I mean.

That’s.

That’s it. That’s really all all you have to do. I mean, you don’t, you know, to to make a big impact on your family as far as legacy, it doesn’t have to be these big, grand things.

So that’s your first ministry is in your home, you know. And so but also on the other side of that is we’ve had these conversations with our kids. I’m like, there’s times where they thought a little different. They were hearing certain, you know, things and they were like, well, maybe that’s right, you know? But ultimately I said, you know, the gospel and ultimately it’s you and Jesus. It’s not me, you and Jesus. I wish I could do it. I wish I could go through a checklist and do everything right and, and and, you know, get all my people right into heaven. But it’s not me, you and Jesus. You have to own your faith. And, you know, that’s something even Jeff talks about when, you know, growing up in a Christian environment. But then he had to kind of go out and he had to see Jesus for himself. You know, he had to be called himself. And so, uh, same with me. And so that’s that’s one thing is. Yeah, you you obviously all parents know we don’t we want every child to, you know, follow Jesus from an early age. We don’t want them to have to go through. My father was older when he, you know, came to follow Jesus. And I think about how many years were wasted that he could have known him and and what that would have been like, you know, for him and our family. But but ultimately, I’m like, he’s a believer, you know, and he’s going to be with Jesus already. But I was like, so you never know. That’s why you never give up on anybody. That’s why we teach our kids to hey, so and so, ma’am. You know, it’s sometimes it’s hard if you don’t struggle with something to have sympathy or, you know, for another person struggling with with something. And so, you know, it’s it’s showing grace because you never know when God is going to call someone to follow him. It’s not on your timeline, it’s on his.

No. So true. And I think what you’re talking about is having quantity time with your children and building the kind of relationship with them where they feel comfortable talking to you about anything. The fact that you know about, I don’t know if there were doubts or different thoughts about, uh, Christianity or whatever it was, but that that, you know, about it. That’s the key. Because then and then knowing about it is one thing, but then how you respond to that will determine whether that child feels comfortable talking to you again about a doubt or fear or any of those things. And because you have created a comfort in your home, it’s not like one of these religious homes where we just believe. We just believe. But there’s no real conversation about there’s no room for doubt or questions or these kinds of things. And then pretty soon it’s just becomes a heritage Christianity versus an authentic individual relationship with God between your child and God. And I think that is so important. So you’re encouraging that individual relationship with the Lord. And I think everybody listening. That’s it. We’re we’re imperfect people. We’re imperfect parents. There’s no perfect parents. But if you can be sharing the gospel and sharing your stories like grandma did on the boat and, uh, real life stories, um, of your walk and challenges and how God helped you through it, that I think that is it.

Um, but back on adoption, I’m just even thinking about people. You know a lot of times our audience will come and they’ll listen to the podcast because they want to take something away that they can teach their kids. They want to take something away, that, oh, maybe I missed this in Scripture, and this is something that I need to teach my kids. They don’t even know. Right. And so, you know, as we’re we’re talking about this topic of adoption, and I’m reflecting as having been raised in a Christian home my whole life, gone to church my whole life, and thinking about how many people I actually knew that were adopted, like how many kids throughout my lifetime. And and sadly, I think that it’s very few that I actually knew. I don’t know about you guys, but and, and we’ve been a part of many different kinds of churches, but but like even then there wasn’t this like openness to talk about it when it was the obvious adoption. Right. Like the the like you said, Caucasian family adopting someone of a different ethnicity where it’s obvious. Right. And I, I think that there’s a need, especially in today’s day and age where the young people are just, like hungry for authentic, right? They’re hungry for like, don’t gaslight me. Don’t let’s talk about things. Let’s be real. Let’s be honest. But God’s word has so many different things to say that. And when I say different, I mean different than what Christian culture on the outside looks like regarding adoption. And you guys hit on it how like now you from the scripture that you shared and your testimony, you can relate to Christ, to God in a different kind of way because you’ve lived out being that father, that mother that adopted someone that, like, opens your mind of being able to relate to God in a totally different kind of way.

Right? But sharing that with other people is it’s inspiring. It’s it’s it’s challenging, exhausting. Iron sharpens iron. And that kind of a way where we all should be like thinking, okay, so, you know, God does give different passions to different people, right? The gifts are dispersed among the body for the edification of the whole. And so there are going to be those that go before and work in an adoption clinic, or they’re working with an organization that’s empowering people and educating them on adoption and all the things they need to know. And then there’s people who are, like, super passionate about pro-life. But like, for them to come together and recognize that they’re actually partners in the same cause, which is what James 127 says, I’m just going to read it for a second, says religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the before God the Father is this to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. And so recognizing that, like we need to be in community with these people, we need to like search them out and see how we can help. Like, that’s what God’s saying. Like even just the visiting or portion of it, right? That’s not necessarily adopting but visiting them. And as I look back again thinking, how many did I know?

She can take a moment to listen about you thrive, our children going through this this summer. And it is so good to feel the gaps of financial education. We’ll be right back to the show. I want to.

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100%.

It’s funny, even this book, uh, my oldest brother al, um, has he’s he’s 15 years older than me, so there’s a big gap. He’s almost 60. Isn’t that weird? I have a brother that’s almost 60. That makes me feel weird. Um, and he’s he’s got a lot of grandkids. And so they were reading the book, and he’s reading it to them, and. And even then, what’s funny, because Gus plays with them, you know, quite often go swimming over there all the time and they’re like, oh, now we see. I mean, he said it got them talking about they didn’t realize exactly how Gus got adopted and like, and why he looks so different. And so even in my own family, this this book has made a difference. It just having other kids talk about adoption and like how that all works. So it’s pretty cool.

That’s great. Well, hey, this has been such a great time talking with you both. Any, uh, any place you want to send people here at the end? I know we talked about your work and we talked about the book, but maybe you could just share that again. And any any last encouragement for people listening in?

Yeah, I.

Would say, um, you can go get our new book, Your Valor, along with all, uh, some amazing other authors you will not regret. Brave books. It, um, every book has a different life lesson. You can grow with these characters. There’s fun activities in the back of the book that families can do with their kids. Um, that kind of gets them to enter, interact with each other and talk a little bit more, um, about the topic. Uh, but you can go to Brave Books.com to get those. And yeah, if I would say look into, um, those organizations that we talked about, look into church and ask your church if there’s different, you know, organizations or different, um, places that you could serve or seek out to be able to go see foster kids or, or an orphanage or the elderly, like you said, like that’s what we’re called to do.

Um, and mine is all God’s children. Org so if you want to check that out, it’s amazing organization. I’ve been to Colombia, Ethiopia. I’m actually going back to both of those places fairly soon. So, uh, and we do a lot of good work. It’s awesome. God’s doing a lot of good work.

That’s right. Yeah.

Amen. Amen. Well, so good to meet you both and have you on the show. Uh, so appreciate it.

Thank you. Thanks for having us.

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