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Full Transcript:

Note: This is an automated transcript and misspells or grammar errors may be present.

Welcome to Courageous Parenting Podcast, a weekly show to equip parents with biblical truth on raising confident Christian kids in an uncertain world.

Hi, I’m Angie from Courageous.

Mom and Isaac from Resolute Man Together pursuing the mission to impact 10 million families and their legacies for the Kingdom of God.

We’ve been married for 23 years and are seeing the fruit from raising our nine children Biblically. Based on the raw truth found in the Bible.

We can no longer let the culture win the hearts of children, as too many from Christian families are walking away from their faith by the age 18. And it doesn’t have to be this way. It shouldn’t be this way.

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If you want access to all the episodes, show notes and other biblically based resources. Go to be courageous ministry.org.

Join us as we start another important conversation about effective parenting in a fallen world. Hey, welcome, everyone. Hey, guys. We’re glad you’re here today. We’re talking about an important subject.

We get this question a lot. We’ve been getting this question since the Parenting Mentor program and the podcast started, which was over four and a half years ago. And it’s something that, like, we weren’t really sure if it was super relevant, but we are just circling back around and going, Wow, lots of people have actually asked this over the years. So we’re going to talk about when your kids don’t want to go to church. We’re asking the question, do your kids want to go? Right.

What an important question. Because if they don’t or they’re just going along, but they’re not really engaged in it or they don’t want to go at all, that’s a problem. Like that’s something we need to address. We need to dive into. We need to ask questions and we need to ask ourselves questions and pray, you know, are we in the right church? And maybe you are, but there’s something else within your children that needs work.

That’s right. So we’re going to this is kind of we’re going to go about this a little differently than we normally do in the podcast. I’m just going to say that right up front. Usually we have like points one, two, three, four and different things like that. And and really, this is more of a conversation that Isaac and I just want to share with you. Some of the things that come came to us immediately upon just even discussing it. And hopefully this is encouraging to you. We have a few scripture verses that we want to share with you guys that are the why behind why we believe what we believe regarding this particular topic. I think that when some moms have come to me and asked, I know that some of the more recent questions that are fresh in my memory, they have like a ten year old or a 15 year old. And their question is, do we force them to still go to church when they don’t want to go to church? And I think that there is a growing population, at least that’s what I’m I’m sensing just doing a parenting ministry and the comments, questions that we get. Um, it’s interesting to me that there are more and more parents that are wondering if they have the authority to have their kids go to church.

And I it makes me sad. I’m just going to I’m going to share that. It makes me sad because while your children are in your home, you have a jurisdiction and a duty that God has given you. He is giving you a responsibility to lead your children not just by how you what you do in your own life, although I would say that’s probably the most important thing. So obviously you want to model being a faithful Christian. Um, but you do have authority. God has ordained it and he chose you to be your child’s parent. That means that he has given you what you need by the power of the Holy Spirit that resides in you. But also he’s giving you the same Bible that he’s given us. And so when you are lacking wisdom and knowing how to navigate these more complex situations with your children, first and foremost, aside from listening to what Isaac and Angie’s opinion is, we just want to encourage you guys to pray and go to the word and seek the Lord’s help. But as we’ve been praying about these different things with, you know, parenting and we reading the Bible, we have a pretty deep conviction that you are to continue going to church. But that doesn’t mean that you don’t dive into the questions like Isaac was saying, Yeah.

It’s so important to dive into it and we’ll get into that. Thanks for being part of the 10 Million Legacies movement. Everything’s a be courageous ministry.org. We work full time. I mean it’s full time effort and she’s full time at home obviously with the kids but she helps when she can but it’s a lot of work to do the ministry. So if you want to pray for us, if you want to support, if you want to purchase something, if you want to switch where your coffee is, if you want to join us for Biblical Communion in the app for just 8.99 a month and get all the free resources like the Courageous Marriage series, the Kids podcast, all the different things, the community that helps us be able to do what we’re doing and obviously buying the courses and things like that. So but even just if you’re praying for us, would you do that and keep listening, Keep sharing the podcast. That is huge.

Yes, I’d say even more so now today than ever. There’s definitely been an increasing persecution and hardships, I would say, for Christians. I think that we have a long ways to go here in America before we actually experience it like how they do in other countries, don’t get me wrong. But but I will say that it definitely there have been attacks from the enemy as well, spiritual warfare and just feeling like sometimes you’re moving upstream like a swimming, swimming salmon.

It does. And another thing that helps the podcast get out there is give it a five star review on Apple or Google. All you have to do is hit tap and tap the stars. And if you want to write something too, it always encourages us hearing back. You know, when we shoot these, we’re talking literally to nobody. Now we know we’re talking to you, right? But when we record it, we don’t see any of you, right? So now we know there’s thousands upon thousands of people listening and we appreciate you. But when we hear back, it’s like it just makes I think it makes us do a better job. It encourages us and it makes it more exciting. Yes, for sure. Because we can see. We can see. Oh, this is having an impact. So we appreciate it.

Yeah, I echo that.

All right.

Good job. All right. So let’s get into. To today’s podcast. I think this is even if you maybe you’re in a good spot with your kids, I think this is a really relevant conversation for you to listen to because you never know what the future is going to hold in your parenting journey or in your child’s faith journey regarding their relationship with God, because that also is a huge reason why maybe this is a symptom. Maybe them not wanting to go to church is a symptom of a heart issue. Like maybe they’re doubting their faith. And so that’s why we said there’s a need for some really deep questions and we’re going to talk about that. So this is a question we get asked a lot, like I said. But there is a need to understand that there may be different for one person asking the same question than it is for another. Right. Because while one kid might be doubting God and feel like they don’t want to go to church because maybe they don’t want to be a Christian, another kid might not be wanting to go to a specific church because they have made an idol out of sports and they’re mad at God or they’re mad at church because it’s getting in the way of them being able to play in that baseball tournament because their mom and dad said, No, we don’t do this. We’re putting God first. Then I think about the other kids who maybe they feel like they’re not growing and they’re stuck and other kids are not growing in the Lord and they want to grow. They want to participate more. Maybe they’re bored, right? And that that would be a problem where you need to evaluate the church situation or.

Maybe what you’re teaching them is so in contrast to the behavior they experience when they go to church, in the church programs and things like that. And while that can can happen, we can either give them we should give them perspective on how to be a leader and rise up in that environment and be helpful and give them ways and teach them how to do that. Or maybe it’s just not the right thing for them and they should just go to church with you and sit with you.

Or maybe you need to find a different church. I mean, there’s multiple that’s like three options right there, but there’s actually others as well. Like you know, if you’re going to be raising your kids up to be a leader, let’s just talk about that for a second. Let’s say that they are going to Sunday school and they come out of Sunday school and you ask them, Hey, how was Sunday school today? And have you ever heard the answer? Well, it was okay, I guess. And you’re like, I guess. And they go, Well, yeah. I mean, it’s really hard to listen because the kids are so loud and they’re disrespectful or they’re not listening or they’re bringing teenybopper magazines into class and they’re not even paying attention or they’re playing video games. Yes, you heard me right. There are churches that have Sunday school programs with walls of video games and the kids are just sitting there numb numbingly not having fellowship with one another, not socializing, not worshiping God, not learning about God, but playing video games.

What if I said that the the most important people at church are the children? And I said that for a fact because it’s not 100% true. They’re just as important. They’re just as important. But I wanted that to kind of get you hearing this for a second, that a lot of times there can be a feeling to children that they’re less important than the adults when they’re 100% equal in value, right in God’s eyes. And church is for children as much as it is for adults. Right. And that’s the truth.

That is the truth. But sometimes church doesn’t make kids feel that way, right? Like if they don’t allow them to come and sit and participate in the actual church meeting. So you guys, if you’ve been listening to the podcast for any length of time, you guys know that Isaac and I have a pretty strong opinion about church programs. That’s not what today is about at all. We think that they can be beneficial in an additive way, but they should never become the replacement for parental discipleship, first of all, and they should also never be the replacement for actually attending and participating in the church meeting. And so if you’re going to a church that has Sunday school programs at the same time as a church meeting, I want to challenge you that if you’re only going for the length of the church meeting, have your kids come with you because what you’re doing is not teaching them how to go to church. You’re teaching them how to go to a Sunday school classroom, which is different than going to church. When you’re going to church, what are you doing? Like God’s word is pretty clear that we go to hear the apostles teaching breaking of bread. The But but is the Apostles teaching being read right? The breaking of bread which is communion? Are they taking communion in Sunday school class? I don’t. I don’t think.

So. Prayer and.

Worship. Prayer and worship. Are they doing those things in Sunday school? Sometimes they’ll hear a teacher pray or they’ll maybe pray for a couple kids in the classroom. But there is a need for us to be meeting together with. Like especially when you’re younger, don’t you benefit from rubbing up against more spiritually mature people? So if they’re just in their age segregated classrooms, they’re not actually part of the the whole body. The whole body has many different gifts, different maturities. There’s a reason why God said it’s important that churches have elders. I could go on. And on and on. It’s not the main point of the podcast. The point that I’m trying to make, though, is that it’s important that our kids understand why we go to church and what is important about church. And part of that is the four elements of what we participate in and experience while we’re there. And then there’s this other thing that we want to talk to you about that I think is really at the heart of the issue, which is if we love Jesus, we want to worship him. If we love Jesus and we’re in a relationship with him, we want to learn more about him.

We want to hear someone that’s more spiritually mature, preaching expository through the word and teaching us things from a different lens and and discipling us like we should desire that all of us as Christians. And if if there isn’t that desire for those things as parents, wouldn’t you want to know? Like I know I would want to know. So I have a question for you, which is, do your kids feel like they can share with you to their heart on why they don’t necessarily want to go to church? Or are you just hearing, I don’t want to go and not asking them why? Because that’s really that can be revealing. Then you can see like, oh, maybe there’s an immature reason. Okay, they’re being childish. They’re a child. Maybe they they want to do their sport or maybe they want to do something else. Okay. But maybe there’s a real heart issue there where they’re like, well, I just I don’t I don’t know if I believe in God. If you don’t know that parents like you can’t dig in with them and the word and teach them what the Bible says and show them who Jesus is. Right?

Like or they might say, it’s boring. It’s I don’t enjoy it. And then that’s an opportunity to dig into the word and let’s go. Okay. Instead of off the cuff ING it, go well, yeah. I’m excited to talk to you about that. Let’s get some time later tonight. Okay.

And then and then you’re going to go to church.

And then you look through your Bible and you and you look through the scriptures that talk about church, and you’ll see that it’s the bride of Christ. And what does that mean? And you dive into it and you read some commentary, and then you bring that back to your children and it says, Don’t forsake the gathering, which you’re going to read in a second. And so and you look at these things and you just talk about it with your child about how what God says is important about church and why church is important. And but at the same time, if that’s not happening, I want to hear from you. What makes you feel like it’s boring? And maybe there’s just over and over again, week after week after week, there’s just a feeling that they’re not needed there. There’s no way they can contribute. Maybe they’re not actually having fellowship with other people. Maybe they’re time with other people is very disconnected and there isn’t real relationships building. I mean, I’m just kind of giving you some ideas here, but when you ask your children, you talk about the biblical truth of church, and then you contrast that with maybe their experience and then you might realize, wow, they’re actually not getting a chance to worship the Lord. They’re not getting a chance to discover what their gifts are or, you know, these kinds of things, or they’re not doing communion or, you know, what are the things that might be missing that God is saying shouldn’t be missing from their church experience?

Yes, I don’t I think that it’s so sad when I hear that kids don’t necessarily want to go to church. And then I sometimes will always ask the parents a few questions like, well, have they ever gone to church with you? Like, meaning have they sat in a church meeting with you? And that’s always the first question that I ask because I think that a lot of people underestimate children and their intelligence and their desire for truth. And seeking for truth is a human thing that God put in every person to desire to know their Heavenly Father. That is the truth of it. And a lot of people who sin and are wayward are looking for God in all the wrong places. But it doesn’t change the fact that what they’re looking for is a God experience. That is the truth because that is something that God put in all of his creation. And so when a little child doesn’t want to go or a teenager doesn’t want to go, I think that this is more than just them saying, I don’t want to go and maybe a parent getting upset because it’s ruffling their feathers a little bit as they’re scrambling to get in the car to get to church on time. And they’re like, why didn’t you tell me this sooner? And I don’t have time to talk to you about this right now. Just get in the car. There is a need for a real follow up. There is a need for real intentional parenting where the mom and the dad or the mom or the dad. Pursues that child and has a opportunity to sit and say, Hey, when you said this, I want you to know I heard you and that it’s really important to me.

I want to know why you’re feeling this way. Would you mind sharing? And then you just don’t talk and you let your child talk. And those kinds of conversations can develop a deeper relationship on so many levels for the future. Fruit of your child’s experience with God. It is vital that you develop a relationship with your children where they feel like they can talk to you about anything. But that also means also being able to talk to you about their questions about God, about their doubts about the Lord, about their frustrations with people at church even, or they’re feeling disappointed in not getting fed. Maybe they are growing in maturity and they need they’ve kind of outgrown in the church experience that they’re having in their Sunday school program. Maybe that’s what it is. If that’s what it is, praise the Lord. You can deal with that real easily, you know? Um, but I think that the point is, is that taking the time to have those long conversations or short conversations where you’re sitting there in front of your child and you’re sharing with them what you said is really important to me. I want to hear you. That changes everything. But you guys, there’s there’s something that is to be said for being really transparent with yourself and taking rose tinted glasses off as the leaders of your home and being willing to say first and foremost, okay, hold on a second. Why is my child saying this? Have they said this multiple times before, along with maybe some red flags or yellow flags that they have pinpointed in the church? Are they using discernment? Do they have the gift of spiritual discernment? And they’re using discernment and they’re coming to me and I’m not hearing them.

Um, you know, there’s some real important things that we as parents need to ask. We need to ask ourselves, is it the church that we have chosen to be a part of? Like, is there legitimately something that’s wrong? And if there is, like Isaac said earlier, you can encourage your kids and even teach them how to rise up and lead to a certain degree. But you also as parents, if you’re going to teach your kids, if you’re going to teach your kids to rise up and be leaders in a situation where maybe they don’t agree with the disrespect that’s happening in the church Sunday school or youth program. Right. For example, if you’re encouraging them to do that, you as a parent, part of how you model change is that you would also pursue the the youth program director or the child’s ministry pastor or whoever it is that is running the program, and that you’d sit down with them and share with them that very vital Intel that you’ve received from your child with a helpful heart of wanting to challenge and spur one another on to grow. Because we can’t just sit idle and expect our kids to be leaders in this situation if they are if they’re stronger in their faith and they’re seeing mediocre Christianity or no Christianity and disrespect and and bad behavior just not being held accountable and sin happening even, um, we can’t just keep putting them over there and saying, oh, just be a leader.

You’re a good girl or. Or I know that God put you there for a reason and then you not do something. No. Instead you need to go. Hey, listen, we’re a team. I hear you. And while you’re going to do that, I want you to know that I’m also going to go talk to the pastor. And I’m also going to go talk to the youth pastor, or I’m going to go talk to the Sunday school teacher. And we’re going to we’re going to help these kids. Okay. And then you pursue that. And if there is nothing but ho hum, I don’t care. Kids will be kids, then you know that maybe you’re in a place that you do need to move on. But if their heart is soft and they’re like, Oh, thank you for coming to me, Yes, I’m aware of this. I’ve been praying about this. Let’s work together then. By golly, I think you’re in a good spot. Like as possibly. That’s still something you and your husband are going to have to be discerning on along with your child. But I think that there is a need for us if we’re going to teach our kids to be participants in the body, if they come to us with a legitimate concern of something that’s happening within the church that maybe we didn’t know about, if we do nothing, that’s a bad example to our kids.

I think it would be good just to explore how can children be participants in the body of Christ? What are ways? What are ideas? Because when you hear that, you know, and you go to church and there’s a sermon and then you leave, you know, And how does that work? Because the Body of Christ isn’t just that our.

It’s not just that, right? Yeah, exactly. And so I think, you know, that’s a really good question. For sure. I think that there’s a lot of ideas I have. We do church a little bit differently now, but we were part of a larger institutional church setting for the first 16 years that we were married, right, Isaac? So it’s been more like the last eight years that we’ve been doing home church. And I would say that for sure, our experience now is that our kids definitely get a chance to participate more, but it’s also a smaller congregation. So that’s part of it.

But you could serve another family. They could participate in putting a meal together. They could help set up. If there’s chairs needing set up, go early. There could be worship team, there could be, you know, what are the areas and pray, how can your family serve? You know, maybe they’re helping you greet your greeting and their greeting with you and handing out the agenda as people come in.

And I even think of like clean up churches always need help with cleanup. Now I get that like bigger churches hire janitors and different things like that and and so forth. But if your kids are part of like a Sunday school program or something, you could encourage them to ask the teacher if they could help with cleaning up snacks or or whatever it is, right? Like there are things that they could do. I know that in our church we we ask the kids to help us with picking up worship binders, for example. And sometimes they’ll help sweep after we have fellowship time because we always do shared meal. Sometimes kids will bring baked goods to the church. So maybe, maybe that’s something that you guys can do. But we also help with worship. They do, though. Some of the kids will come. Well, a lot of the kids will come prepared with a song to share. And it’s so sweet when they say, I have a song to share and you just like, just get your heart. And it’s just really beautiful to see kids practicing during the they’re literally doing something during the week with the thoughtfulness of what they can bring to church on Sunday to bless the church. And I think that that’s really where it’s at, where they start to realize that church is not just on Sunday because they’re doing something throughout the week to help them do something on Sunday.

And then how can people have fun together, different ages, you know, afterwards? That’s a good thought to have, you know, and spend time together and these kinds of things. There’s just, you know, maybe you can group up with a few families and do a picnic in the park afterwards and switch up how that happens while there’s some kind of outdoor game going on that multiple ages can play, I think that’s just a lot healthier than segregating by age and and compartmentalizing and all separating ways when we go to church. But how can you make it more interesting even within the setup that exists with your church? I’m sure it’s a great church. It’s the bride of Christ. We’re for God’s church in the different shapes and sizes that that they come. And so within the church you go to, how can you make that experience better for your children? I think that is a core question. As parents, we need to ask. We can’t just rely on people that work at the church to make the experience different, although we love going to talk to them and sharing giving them that Intel. But at the same time, we’re the parents. How can we influence that experience and what can we do within the structure that exists? And I’m sure you can find some creative ideas. I’m sure there’s some elderly people that would love, you know, to say hi to children, you know, and and.

And even people who are like stuck in their homes. I know that during Covid there was a lot of that. And and people who need grocery shopping done like what if your church was to start a ministry or something if they don’t already have this where they did grocery shopping for the elderly in their church and your kids helped with that process of getting them the groceries and dropping it off at their house and getting paid for the groceries like that. I just I think there’s so many things that we don’t think of on a regular basis until we’re actually walking in life with people and we see that there are real needs and burdens that need to be helped carried. And so knowing people is a huge, huge part of kids even feeling like they are attached to something or wanting to be a part of a community. And it’s not just kids. It’s all humans. We were social beings made this way.

How about generosity, tithing and offerings? Of course you’re doing that, right? The Bible says so. But also your children. Well, they only made $4 last week, you know, pulling weeds. Okay, perfect. There you go. You know, and and you pray with them and you put it we would put it in a little Ziploc bag and we’d write their name on it. I don’t know if their name ever made it to the ledger or not. It probably did. It did sometimes, yeah. And depending on the church, you know, we never see that stuff. But how cool is it? It doesn’t matter how cool is it to give to God. And then when they make an announcement in church about how the Giving campaign helped to expand the building or help to serve these missionaries across the world, they in their hearts are like. I helped. Yep. Wow. I pulled weeds, and out of the abundance of my heart, I gave. And then I saw what? Missionaries spreading the gospel and being helped.

Yeah, it’s pretty cool. You know, I think that having habits like that are so important for our kids to not just experience in the moment, but also to develop a habit because it’s easy to get into the habit of of not giving. It’s easy to get into the habit of not going to church. And let me just read this passage from Hebrews chapter ten. I was just going to read verse 24 and 25, but I want to start a little earlier because I think that this really shows like, okay, this is why we should be entering into fellowship with one another and what we should share. We should share this scripture with our kids. Actually, in verse 19, it says, Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus. I’m going to stop there for a second. Do your kids value the blood of Jesus? Do they know what Jesus did for them on the cross when he bled? That he forgave them? Like, are our kids saved? Do they know the basic gospel? And that we get to enter into the holy places of God? Like like even just going to church, experiencing God anywhere, like being able to pray.

We get to pray directly to God because of what Jesus Christ did on the cross. Do your kids know that, that it used to be difficult and in the Old Testament that you had to sacrifice and and you had to follow all of these rules in order to be good enough. And because of what Jesus did, we all have direct access to God. That’s incredible. Then it continues by the new and living way that He opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh. And since we have a great priest over the House of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast to the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir one another up to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another all the more as you see the day with a capital D drawing near, I want.

To take a moment and give you something for free if you haven’t got it already is the date Night one sheet. It is a beautiful document you can download that will have some key questions on it for your date night to just get in alignment about what’s most important for your family. No matter what time of year, it’s always important to recalibrate. You can get that by going to courageous Parenting.com and subscribing to our mailing list. Also, so you can get all of our show notes and everything at Courageous Parenting.com. And I also just want to share real quick about the Parenting Mentor program. So many families are being transformed by going through this. It’s the six week self-paced program with live engagement from us and even direct interaction. So if you want to join us, here’s a little bit more about it and you can find out more at Courageous Parenting.com.

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We’re no longer fearing dark days ahead, but we’re so excited to raise lights to be leaders for the next generation.

Now, are your children being encouraged, encouraging one another? Are they being encouraged? Are their gifts coming out? Are they discovering more of how God made them by participating in the body of Christ? And I think when we’re a when we’re part of something, we tend to like something a lot more. But when we’re just spectators or just going going out of expectation but not real understanding, then it could maybe not be a great experience and it might be missing out. I think too, it’s so important that we utilize the car ride there and. The car ride home. The car ride. There should be expectation. Maybe worship song on it should not be fighting, letting the enemy win in discouragement in the car. It should be. It should be worshiping the Lord and then talking about is there anything we need to talk about before we take communion today? Because we don’t want to condemn ourselves, Right? You wouldn’t say that to your kids every time, but you you would say the principle of, hey, is there any any anybody that needs to forgive anybody in the car that’s important before taking communion. Right. And preparing our hearts and and repenting of anything in the family that we need to to each other, including parents, to children that is in husband and wife to each other. How powerful is that in the car ride with your children, knowing that you probably shouldn’t take communion unless you do that before church and then you have church and then afterwards whatever happens, maybe picnic in the park sometimes or whatever. Then you’re driving home and reflection. Time What did you like about church today? What did you learn? Do you have any questions? Do you have any thoughts? Ideas?

There’s so many good conversations that we could be having with our kids if we were being more intentional. And I think that sometimes parents can be so like on to the next thing, right? Like, I know I’m guilty of this. I’m just saying it because I’m guilty of it myself. I’ll be thinking like, Oh, I got to feed nine people, right? Like, what am I going to make? You know? But in reality, having the time to sit down and talk about the sermon message, what you learned. I just love that scripture that we were just reading, though, because it says, Lord, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith. R our kids drawing near to God with a true heart, in full assurance of faith. Do they have full assurance of faith, or are they a younger child who maybe they just they believe in Jesus and they’re they’re, you know, hanging on the coattails of their parents faith. But they have this faith like a child that is so beautiful. Maybe they haven’t yet fully made their faith their own or been challenged with any kind of, um, any kind of suffering or trial or anything that’s going to potentially like create any challenge for them yet. But it’s coming.

And we need to equip our kids for life understanding. We live in a fallen world and our kids are going to be exposed to lies at times. They’re going to be exposed to challenges, all kinds of different things. And so when we equip our kids and we teach them, you know, hey, this is how we respond when this sort of thing happens, that leads them to continue trusting God versus getting mad at God. Right. And I think that that’s an important question. I think for the older kids that are potentially maybe even rebellious and not wanting to go, man, it’s like you need, first of all, parents, I really hope you’re all praying for your kids on a regular basis that they would want to be in fellowship with other people who love Jesus, that they would want to be in fellowship first and foremost with God, that they want to know him. They want to make him known, that they want to continue growing in a relationship with God, that they don’t rest on their laurels and just get complacent in their spiritual growth, but instead that they see that there’s a need to continue growing on a regular basis. We need to be all praying that for every single one of our kids, but also if you have the teenager that is having attitude that with you, that is a hardened heart, that is a part of a seared conscience.

The Bible talks about that. And we need to be praying that that’s not the case for our child and looking for opportunities to to really connect with their heart and to chase after their heart as God would chase after their heart and teach them about the one true living God and how amazing he is and how much he loves them, that they would know who Jesus is and that they would be known by and experienced the forgiveness that comes through Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit in their life and knowing their heavenly Father that can be so powerful in anybody’s life. It can set them free from all kinds of bondages, right? And so I just want to share that with you guys, because prayer moves mountains. Humans do not. Prayer moves mountains. And we need we can’t change another person’s heart, but we sure can pray for them and we can pray that they would have a softened heart and that the Holy Spirit would chase after them, that they would find him. And I think that’s just super necessary.

So Proverbs 2717 says iron sharpens iron and one man sharpens another. And that’s what churches do, fan each other’s flames to sharpen each other, to grow spiritually, to cultivate relationships where someone’s going to let you know if there’s a problem they see in your lives. We need to run the race ourselves with other believers and they need to see that happening as well. Also, Galatians 513 through 14 says for you were called to freedom Brothers only. Do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love, serve one another. So they need to they need to have experience serving one another. And you can connotate from that scripture that perhaps maybe if they’re not serving other people, they might use their freedom as an opportunity for their flesh. And there might be people at church, their ages and so forth with different maturities, different spiritual walks, and they should use their freedom to serve. And sometimes serving is exhausting. Sometimes serving is is correcting people their age and asking them to be more respectful to the person teaching and these kinds of things and to ask them questions and be a light and be a witness to people at church and especially in the children’s ages. You know, who knows what God’s doing in their hearts? And there’s so much opportunity to share the gospel and these kinds of things. Do your children have a perspective of that, of being lights at church?

Mhm.

I think that there’s another whole conversation. Maybe we’ll do another podcast on it. But I do want to just bring up something that I think is, um, we need to be on high alert for and that’s that our children are growing up in a very highly entertained world, meaning there is a competition for being able to keep a child’s attention span because of the mass, um, quantity, sheer quantity of entertainment that kids are exposed to through media and TV and different things like that. And the reality is, is if your kids are saying, Oh, church is boring, I just want to challenge you, Why? Why would they be saying that? I mean, is it a legitimate thing to them to where maybe the people who are teaching are just like, oh, humdrum, going through things and and not like helping children to understand how it applies to their life so that it’s actually important, um, or are kids so overly entertained that that’s why they’re bored? Because we need to be fair as parents on the people who are, who are teaching because they’re actually serving, they’re serving you praise the Lord. And so if you’re sitting in a church service and your kids are in a Sunday school program that’s being led by someone else, they are not sitting in the church service. Instead they are serving. And so while it’s easy to just like point a finger, I just want to remind you that at least they’re serving. And so there needs to be a respect for the time and the quantity of time that they are literally laying their life down for that time to serve your children.

And maybe it’s that your kids have an expectation of huge lights and smoke and fog and loud music, and it has to be a party or it’s boring. And I bring that up because of the emotional over entertainment that seems to be so attractive and especially in big churches today, where makes it feel like to the young children, especially when there’s semi-professionals only on the worship team and the nine year old wants to be helping lead worship, but they feel like they can’t because they’re not as good as the professionals up there. They could get discouraged and literally not keep trying. Now I just I’m bringing that up not because I think that the professionals need to sit down. That’s not what I’m saying. Like God disperses the gifts among the body for the edification of the whole. My question is, is the whole actually being edified through the way things are happening, or is there room for other people to start learning that they have new gifts? Or is the same person doing worship team for 35 years? I mean, that really needs to be some solid questions that we all need to be asking ourselves. Should I sit down and bench myself for a season so someone else can rise up and also learn how to serve in this capacity? I think that that’s an important question that everyone who’s serving should ask and and recognizing that there is a need for mentoring up the next generation and owning their participation in the body of Christ.

So and I would just say to that, you know, are you just a church Sunday family when it comes to spirituality? We’ve had other conversations about this. I won’t go deep into it, but it is really important that we have a relationship home, not a religious home. And I think our previous episode talked about that. So in relationship with God and they see that through the week and you’re pointing them to a relationship with God versus a rigid, rule based religion. Now, are there things the Bible says on behavior that are important? Yes, But for the purpose of loving God and glorifying his name not just for the purpose of the rule itself?

Right.

I think, too, that on that note, if we’re talking more about relationship, just again, I just want to go circle back because this is really like the heart, the heart probing questions. When you find a kid that maybe is struggling to go to church because they’re struggling with doubt or they’re mad at God or they feel like they don’t know enough, and maybe they’re embarrassed. Maybe they don’t know the geography of the Bible. And maybe the teacher is saying, Hey so-and-so, can you flip to Ecclesiastes four and read this verse? And some kids are really good at it and maybe they’re struggling because you haven’t taught them the geography of the Bible. Like maybe you don’t know what it is like. You’ve got to ask the questions and take the time to listen to your child’s heart, but then also take it a step farther. It’s not just listening. It’s leading and going, okay, well, hey, if you’re having a hard time finding where books are in the Bible, thank you for telling me. Let’s study it together. I want to help you with that and finding tools and ways that you can help your child practice, You know, even doing, like, little quizzes. Hey, can you flip to Philippians? You know, just practicing with them a little bit. Every day can be a huge thing. And so if it’s something that’s minor like that, still take the time to lead your child to to show them that this is what’s important to them is important to you. And that. You are so proud of them for desiring to know the geography of the Bible or whatever it is. Yeah, but if it is something that’s more like doubt, then. Oh my goodness. You guys have got to dig into scripture with your children, sharing the true gospel with them and leading them to Jesus and giving them that opportunity to really own their faith. Right? That can be so powerful in a kid’s life. And and maybe that’s part of why they don’t want to go is because they’re not sure. And everyone there seems to be sure.

Hey, just a thought from being a father is it’s way more important that church is going well for my children than it is that it’s going well for me. And part of my job as a spiritual leader of the family is to make sure I am serving my family well by making sure first and foremost that church is being is edifying to my family members. And so if I’m all serving and feeling great, but my family members are not feeling great and not allowed to use their gifts, then I need to really look at that because sometimes we don’t realize it. But subconsciously we’re putting ourselves ahead of our family and we never want to do that. And it doesn’t mean you’re changing churches. It just means you may need to really dive in and see how your family can really be enriched by their church experience by serving and using their own gifts.

So the last thing that I thought would be really helpful for you parents, especially if you have younger kids and maybe your kids are just going to church because that’s what family does and they’re not pushing back on it and they’re not rebelling. They’re not in this situation where they’re you’re they’re not verbalizing I don’t want to go to church or anything like that. Praise the Lord. But you have little children. And one of the things that you can do right now while your kids are little, so that hopefully, Lord willing, you don’t experience that is to help them know how to be a part of the body and to understand this underlying message of why we do church in the first place and what is it about and who is God and why do we want to participate in church and who am I? Who is the body of Christ? Who is my neighbor that I’m supposed to love? And when we’re teaching those basic doctrines to our children, it helps them to have a greater understanding. If you bring it back to and this is why we go to church so that we can practice fellowshipping or learning about God. When you’re able to start bringing in and connecting the dots for your little kids, it makes it easier for them to understand and have a deeper, stronger conviction of the why they go later.

We hope this is helpful. Thanks for joining us. See you.

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