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Full Transcript:

Note: This is an automated transcript and misspells or grammar errors may be present.

Hey, quick info about today’s special episode.

Today we are sharing our story as first generation home schoolers, the hardships we experienced as well as the blessings of being first generation home schoolers, right? Yep.

And how we stayed out of the ditches and navigated without having a lot of resources at our disposal.

So we’re going to share with you guys what our history is, as well as how we learned how to homeschool and what books we read.

Welcome to Courageous Parenting Podcast, a weekly show to equip parents with biblical truth on raising confident Christian kids in an uncertain world.

Hi, I’m Angie from Courageous Mom.

And Isaac from Resolute Man Together pursuing the mission to impact 10 million families and their legacies for the Kingdom of God.

We’ve been married for 23 years and are seeing the fruit from raising our nine children Biblically. Based on the raw truth found in the Bible.

We can no longer let the culture win the hearts of children, as too many from Christian families are walking away from their faith by the age 18. And it doesn’t have to be this way. It shouldn’t be this way.

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If you want access to all the episodes, show notes and other biblically based resources, go to be courageous ministry.org.

Join us as we start another important conversation about effective parenting in a fallen world. Hey everyone, welcome to the podcast. Hey guys, It’s so good to have you doing this discussion with us. Every week we come with something original, raw and unique, often prompted by the Holy Spirit to at least aspects of it to really deliver and bring something that’s impactful.

You know, we also really appreciate when you guys ask us to do podcasts on specific topics that actually really helps us a lot. That’s kind of what we’re why we’re doing today’s topic and what kind of spurred on this little mini series? We’ve been doing a mini series kind of if you’ve been paying attention the last two weeks, we talked about our church history and then our basically our history with parenting and like how we became, you know, intentional parents. You know, what’s.

So interesting about those two episodes? There’s so much practical information in them. I’m really happy that it happened that way.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s not just about us by any stretch of the imagination, you guys, we don’t want to point people to us, but we do want to be transparent and just share with you guys because that’s something that’s been important to us is knowing who we’re learning from.

You’ve got to know who you’re learning from and you’ve got to make sure they have fruit and you got to make sure that fruit is what you want replicated in your own family. Yeah, it’s so important.

I know that can be so hard with social media today because it’s so easy for people to just share the highlights and not necessarily the realities. And that’s why we try to be as transparent as we can and just share. And we by no means have everything figured out or perfect parents, right? Isaac Yeah, we’ve been at this for 22 years. We have nine kids, but we’re still learning.

And we’ve done so many lives in our app where we answer any question candidly, transparently. And it’s so fun to really dig in with all of you. So anyways, you know what?

That just reminds me. Someone reached out this week and asked me a really important question and we had just covered it in the monthly Q&A live in the Be Courageous app. And it was it’s on a very relevant topic to what many of you guys are struggling with right now. It’s in regards to should you do Christian camps or day camps during the summer. So if that’s something that you have been looking for wisdom on, go check out our app.

Yeah, we just answered.

Just answered that question in the Q&A. It was really good discussion.

This one is going to be fun to do. Our first generation homeschooling hardships and blessings. So it’s pretty cool.

Yeah. I mean, we’ve we get a lot of questions about homeschooling, I think probably because we have the homeschooling blueprint, of course, right. And so people ask what that’s about and maybe we’ll talk a little bit about that later. But also we’ve been homeschooling now for this. We just finished up our 19th year.

I’m so glad you said it, because I always say the number wrong.

Well, time flies by and you forget, right? Like I think that if I go to look at my website, it says like, we’ve been married 17 years, but we’ve been married almost 24 years, so I need to update that. Yeah, but in in reality, no, we get a lot of questions from you guys. It’s easy when you see a family, isn’t it, to assume that they have a past that you that you just make excuses in your head as to why you can’t have what they have? Right. Let me give you an example. When people find out that we have nine kids, they think that we came from large families.

Oh, and you must be kid people.

I know, right? And both of those things are wrong.

Although we love.

Kids, we do love.

But had I really had two and others. But I had to learn that that wasn’t a natural thing for me. That’s something God over time really worked in me and it did take time.

Yeah, no. And I had to pray for it. Not with not with mine, but like, with other people’s kids. I’m just being really honest. I was not a kid person. Never saw myself as a teacher. Which gets us to today’s topic. Oh, we didn’t even tell you what today’s podcast is about. Oh, I did. Oh, you did? Okay, so. Well, we are going to talk about homeschooling. And, you know, there’s a lot of things that you might assume knowing that we have nine kids and we’ve homeschooled for 19 years, People ask us, Were you homeschooled?

And I was not homeschooled. I was part of the public school, um, all the way through. So, you know, wasn’t I wasn’t a fan of school when I was younger. It wasn’t hard for me. But there’s a lot of just tough things about the public school path.

Well, and you were in a tiny town. Yeah. And so that might have also been different for you.

Than that would be. I was a non-believer and, you know, in school and it was fine. But I am so thankful that my children are experiencing something different.

And I was also not homeschooled. So Isaac and I are we are first generation homeschoolers in the sense of we are homeschooling our children. Our kids are the first generation that were homeschooled in our family.

You know, it’s interesting, growing up, I don’t even remember meeting a homeschooled in my day one. I wasn’t even around that whole thing growing up.

You know, it’s interesting because when we started looking into homeschooling, I remember finding out all these things like that. Homeschooling had been illegal in Oregon until like. I mean, I must have been like a teenager or I was a kid when it became legalized. Right. And so then it kind of makes sense why I didn’t know any homeschooled kids. Plus, like, my entire life revolved around, like, church and public school because I went to public school also. Isaac and I had very different experiences because he was in a smaller town. I was in, well, the city.

And let’s just face it, I was kind of getting into trouble and you were kind of doing the good things and you were the believer. I was not. You know, I.

Was raised in a Christian.

Home. Yeah. And, you know, you’re doing all the things, the sports, the, you know, in high school, extra academics, the clubs, I’m guessing.

Yeah, it probably was. Yeah. I loved all of it. I loved the whole school experience. So it’s interesting. Like a lot of people also think it’s easy to make that stereotype or think that if you’re homeschooling, you must have had some awful experience in school that’s made you want to do the complete opposite, right? And that’s true for a lot of people. I know that you had some rough experiences. I did, but really?

But oddly, I was not for homeschooling, even though I had rough experiences.

Right, exactly. It was interesting. Neither of us, you guys might laugh, but when we first got married, we first of all, we didn’t think we were gonna have a lot of kids. But we also did not like homeschooling. Wasn’t on our radar, Right? We didn’t even talk about it.

No, it wasn’t even an option.

It was not an option. It was not even like a like an. Yeah. When I say not an option, I literally didn’t even think of it. Right, Because I didn’t know anyone doing it.

And then as I was older and saw homeschool families, at least my image of it, I don’t know if it was from movies or where it came from or some of my.

Right, Because you didn’t know.

Any, I mean, growing up. But in my adult years I probably did. But I don’t know, I just had this feeling that they’re socially awkward, that the education wasn’t as good. What else?

Well, yeah, there was just less opportunities.

I just had a really. Well, it’s bad taste in my mouth about it.

Well, it’s easy to think when you’re raised in a generation that really pushes the kids and kind of, um, I’m going to use the word groom in this way or conditions children into thinking that they have to go to college in order to be in a specific profession. Um, and that was kind of our generation. Yeah. Is that, that was something that was definitely encouraged heavily, at least from my parents and from school. I remember, I mean, back then the thing you.

Will not succeed unless you go to college, right? And so like the.

Teachers would talk about it. Are you taking your SATs? There was always this big buzz about the SATs and the acts, and are you studying for it and what colleges are you applying to? And it was like a big conversation, especially those last three years of high school. And so even if it wasn’t coming from family, it was coming from the education system and from sports and friends.

Okay, so now let’s speed up a little bit. We got married, we had our first child. You can listen to other episodes about the details of that stuff. And then, you know, she became two, then three, then four, and then Austin came around.

Well, yeah, Austin was born when Kelsey was like two and a half. Two and.

A half. So now we have two kids.

Well, and then we tried out preschool actually, at the church. Yeah, we tried out preschool and that, you know, preschool school generally starts in September, the first week of September or the third week of August, and then you get right into October. And what’s in October, you guys in Well, in secular environments, there’s Halloween, right? And that was like our first time being like, here we are just a couple years into parenting. We had already been convicted about not doing Halloween with Kelsey. And here we are in a preschool setting that is like forcing us to have to either participate or hold our daughter back from going to school for a couple of weeks. And it was really sad to me because this was a Christian.

School Montessori thing.

No, no, no, no. This was at a church, actually, the preschool at the church. And it was just weird because there was witches and spiders and like all kinds of stuff going on on the walls for decorating in the church preschool. And I remember talking to the director about it, who I knew really well, and it was just something they had always done. And that was kind of her answer, Well, we’ve always done this kind of like I was like the first one to ask, Why are we doing this? And it just didn’t sit right with me. So we pulled Kelsey out and that was she was only in like six weeks, I think, or seven weeks. And I was like, Nope, this isn’t gonna work.

What’s the next step?

So I brought her home. And for the interim, while I was trying to find a new school, I had a friend who was already homeschooling and had already decided she was going to homeschool and she recommended a five in a row book series. It was a curriculum for preschoolers, super simple. And she was like, Just start reading these classic books with your kids. And they have. Good questions for comprehension and you guys will love them. And I started like, really, I already was big into books and reading books to our kids. And so that was like I was all about that. I was like, Yes, tell me, what are the best books to read to your little kids? I want to know. Okay. And so and how.

Old is she now?

She’s like she’s like three. So then we tried another preschool for a week. Again, the same problem kind of happened where it was just like the environment and the peers was like, What was your motivation?

I mean, three years old, What was your motivation to be going to go to school?

Like when you grow up in the public education system and you hear about like early Start programs and getting your giving your kids the best early start possible. Like every parent loves their kids and wants what’s best for them. And I just wanted her to have a head start. Like I literally believed.

That good marketing.

It was good marketing. I’m like, Hey, if she can read early, that’s just going to benefit her and me, you know?

I’m sure it did help because she is a voracious reader. Yeah, amazing reader.

You know, seriously, like looking back on that, it’s funny how much I was indoctrinated from my education and how much I remembered hearing growing up. And I never really connected the two until way later. Being in home schooling for a while and realizing like, why did I think that way? And then connecting the dots with memories and just going, Wow, So this this is a point to this story is like that was one of the hardships for me was like because we were first time home schoolers or first generation home schoolers, I had to like rethink education.

You had a detox.

I had to detox off of like in the sense of not trying to replicate everything that I had grown up or remembered doing, because then I’m like relying on my my failing memory to regurgitate things, right? And that really made me scared. That actually made me feel like there is no way I can educate my kids because if it’s based upon what I remembered, I don’t know if I remember it all. And like that I think is one of the big hurdles that people have today.

Remember, you’re like, Why couldn’t I couldn’t teach the math and the science? Definitely not the science. I remember her talking about this.

I felt like I was going to fail my kids and hear the same mom who wanted her kids to have a head start and be like, you know, And then you pulled her out early, everything. And I pull her out and then she was home for like a year and a half and then, you know, skip forward to, you know, the middle of kindergarten. And by this time, I’m like pregnant and about to give birth to our third child. And I’m I was I’ll be honest, I was puking like crazy and just so sick. And I felt like I was failing her because I wasn’t hitting my own goals. And at this time, like, my goals were seriously, they were still very highly influenced by my personal education in the public school system and trying to replicate that and bring the traditional school into our home. Like the kids had desks. Do you remember that? Yeah. And they had like the little books.

On the wall. We do homeschooling yet or what happened next.

Yeah. No. So I at this point I realized like, oh, I can’t do this all by myself. So that’s when we tried the Montessori school for a couple months. Okay. But then I realized that even that philosophy, there were certain things from the director that were totally opposing Christianity that I just couldn’t ignore those things anymore. And there were no Christians there at all. I think we had to pull her out again.

We were already grasping definitely Angie more than me, but she was communicating this to me and I learned a lot from her, especially in these areas. And it’s like there’s a certain amount of time you have with your child every day, and a big chunk of it was over here at this Montessori school, for example sake. It was like.

Five hours a day.

And they don’t align with our beliefs. And Kelsey’s at a young age where she’s still really impressionable, where she needs to be filled up and discipled before she’s willing to withstand.

Well, and the thing that I realized, too, about the Montessori school is that I love that concept of hands on education for kids, especially when they’re little and teaching them things. But honestly, like a lot of what they were doing, I’m like, I do this with real tools at home because you use like miniature real cooking utensils. Do you know what I mean? In Montessori? And I literally had already invested in those things and was doing those at home. So then I kind of felt like we were paying too much for something that I was always trying to, okay.

What happened next?

So, you know, another year and a half goes by and we were pregnant with Drew and first grade came. And of course, so I bet you’re getting the theme every year. There’s a new year. Angie thinks, oh, whoa, this is a big deal. I can’t do this grade because I not done it before. Yeah. And you know, to be fair, you guys back then, we’re talking 20 years ago and we didn’t have a lot of friends that were homeschooling. People were just starting to consider it. People were, um, at least in our circles, in our generation of parenting. And it was like. None of our. There was maybe 1 or 2 families that I knew that at the time were like minded, that I watched them pull their kids out of school and start homeschooling them. And I went, Hmm, I actually could do this. Yeah, because.

We were going to a big nondenominational church and which was great.

Most kids were just put into the school. Church. Yeah.

And that church had a, you know, a their own school. Yeah.

Kindergarten through sixth grade, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people were putting their kids in school there and I watched them do that. And then I watched those same parents be frustrated with what was happening. Not not from the teachers or the curriculum per se, but just the peer influences and the fact that like there was just stuff and then they would.

Culture created by the peers. Yeah, yeah.

And so then they would pull their kids out and they would start homeschooling them. And anyways, so you know, there were a few people like, I’m talking to people that I can literally think of that had kids maybe a year and a half older that did that, and I watched them do that, go through that process. And so by this time I’m like, you know, pregnant with my fourth feeling, overwhelmed, thinking, there’s no way with four little kids I can possibly homeschool first grade. And I’m worried about failing my daughter, you know? And so we put her in a private Christian school for an entire year. We gave it a whole year, and it was hard. You guys like.

Wonderful principal, wonderful teachers and.

Great curriculum. So there was nothing like indoctrination wise. I mean, they were her teacher.

Stayed in contact with her and us, I believe.

Oh, yeah. I mean, we’re still in contact even now. I love her. And I think that, you know, there’s even a few parents, too, that we that I’m still connected to as well. But the truth is, is that it was really hard. Like I looked at the kids and I went, okay, is there fruit here that I want my kids to all become like, and can I be involved on a regular basis? And honestly, like the I always thought if I put my kids in school, I would be volunteering and being in the classroom. But once you have four, you’re spread way too thin, like you’re not able to be in all the classrooms at the same time. And so it’s like, let’s be realistic about this. And then it’s like, okay, well, if I’m at the school four days a week, but I’m not on staff, I’m not being a homemaker, it was pulling me away from the home. That doesn’t make sense. Well, I.

Remember I mean, sometimes I would pick up our daughter from school and I just remember the conversations and it was really cool because she got along with everybody. She didn’t have any issues with anybody, but she witnessed issues and fights amongst the girls. And some of them also, you know, were watching soap operas with mom at times.

Not with their own.

Mothers, with their own mothers, because they would come and talk about romance and these different things. And then who do you have a crush on? And at age six and then taking turns who they’re going to diss on and exclude from the group. And these kinds of things were happening in first grade and we’re just like.

Why can’t they just be six and all be friends? Like, why does there have to be drama? It was really sad. So that summer we really pursued people, friendships with the families of the girls in the class, knowing that, well, if we’re going to pick this, then they’re probably going to become like these kids because they’re going to be together for 12 years straight, most likely, right? Like most of them, and realizing like, you know what? All we need is just one really strong good friend or 1 or 2. Right. And we just didn’t have a peace about it. And then we started looking around and I remember Kelsey had her birthday. Do you remember this? And this was the real test.

I need another clue to remember it.

Oh, well, we had we’re evaluating how many like minded families were homeschooling versus how many like minded families had their kids in private Christian school. And really what it came down to was her birthday list, who she wanted to invite to her birthday party. And we were like, these are all homeschoolers. Like, that was like, dun duh, duh. Okay, well, it’s not like we’re not going to have socialization if we choose this route. And so that was kind of a huge thing for us, a realization of like, well, there are people who have fruit. And so but but over here we’re having a hard time seeing the fruit. So I would just encourage you guys, if you’re in that dilemma of trying to decide fruit is a is something Jesus himself recommends that we as believers judge, we judge fruit to make wise, discerning decisions. He uses a fig tree analogy as well, right? Like can good fruit and bad fruit come from the same tree?

Oh, the bad fruit.

And so it’s just we we need to use the wisdom that God has in his word and apply it to our lives on a practical level. And sometimes it’s hard to make those connections. But when we ask God in prayer to show us, and then he brings recollection of Scripture and his truth to our minds for those situations, being wise is being able to say, okay, I have this knowledge of this scripture and this is my situation. Obviously this speaks directly to this. I’m going to judge the fruit and make a decision. You know what I mean? And then it doesn’t have to be this agonizing, stressful thing.

I think a lot of times people do get hung up on which we understand on the our the parents personal discomfort and the parents insecurities and the parents fears. And can I do this? Do I want to do this? Do I want to make myself more busy? I’m used to my nice, better rhythm or whatever the case may be. Right. Or is there a financial cost here of, you know, I’m not going to be able to have two incomes in the family or something like that and or.

Even just paying for curriculum that’s not cheap either.

And so I just think it’s good to never sacrifice what’s best for our own comfort. Yes. And I think that’s really important.

It is really important. But what you’re also saying is similar to what we talked about in our previous podcast about when you were talking about going against the grain versus with the grain. And, you know, truly it’s it is the harder road, right? Like you have more work to do as a mom. Like if you’re.

Homeschooling, you’re not getting a break. Yes. By yourself without your kids.

And it’s something that you’re not getting financially paid for. Like I mean, there’s there’s so many and it’s because it’s against the grain. Oftentimes, there’s not a lot of support. And I’ll just be honest, being first generation homeschoolers is a completely different experience than being a second or third generation homeschooler that has multiple generations who have already gone before and done that and are supportive. Like the harder path. Often times you experience persecution and I’ll be the first to say like, Yeah, we for sure did. I remember how many times I went back and forth in this process. Like if you guys just listen to our story with our first daughter, like it’s sad to me that we put her in and pulled her out four times in two years, right? Like and now, granted, two of those things were six weeks and two weeks. So it wasn’t that big of a deal. And it was.

Prior to six years old, which most people don’t even start yet.

So yeah, don’t even think she remembers it. But the whole point is, like I, I went back and forth primarily I’m just going to share with you guys because of the lack of support that I had back then. Now I will say that like, family is much more supportive now. But of course it’s so much easier to give support when you see the fruit after kids have already been raised and graduated and gone to college and launched and whatever. Right? And they’re successful and you see their character and all those things. So there was.

A lot of doubt. There was doubt from people like Vocal Doubt that super discouraging that it would be as good, that maybe we’d be harming our kids if we did it.

Like in the sense of not giving them the best options, right? Like and again, like, that is the thing that’s so hurtful is that when you’re in the midst of it, you already are thinking those things, obviously. So then when family member or friends come at you with, well, have you thought about socialization or have you thought about this? And you’re literally the person who’s been toiling over this decision and researching every nook and cranny on it for the last four and a half years? Of course, I’ve thought of it right? Like it was the biggest insult I’d ever experienced.

Okay. So we together, I think the Lord helped us to is we became unified in pulling her out and homeschooling. And Angie knew that really rested on her shoulders. I was very busy with work and, you know, being a young entrepreneur, entrepreneur and providing for a growing family. We already have four children. We had a new house. You know, it’s a lot of responsibility. And we were young still. And so, you know, it really rested on her shoulders and she just did a knockout job. But really, we had to you had to do some research, didn’t you?

I did. And, you know, that goes to our next question, which we already talked about. Where are you, homeschooled. Did you want to homeschool? So I just want to like before we move on to the next one, verbally say it. No, I didn’t want a homeschool. Like I kept trying to find reasons to put her in school because I didn’t know what it was going to look like. And I knew that for myself, if I was going to be committed, it was going to require a lot of research. I knew that, like my personality, once I’m all in, I’m literally all in. And so I knew that it was going to require a lot of sacrifice, meaning like I wasn’t going to have the free time to go to the gym during the day to work out or go and meet friends for coffee, which was like the typical thing that most moms did because they would drop their kids off and then they had like their day to clean the whole house, and then the kids would come home and their house was clean. Like when you’re with your kids 24 over seven and you’re educating them and you’re sitting at the table and then you’re like cleaning up, brush refresh.

A lot of people listening understand you?

Yes. And so it literally was like, I am choosing the harder path. Do I really want to do this? Like I’m already exhausted thinking about it? I remember thinking that to myself, you know? So no, I actually didn’t want to homeschool and.

Also the potential friendships that you might lose.

I was scared that people would feel like. I expected them to homeschool, and I didn’t ever want people to feel that way because I really thought like, no, this is just a decision that we are making that we know God’s called us to based upon the fruit that we’re seeing. Like we just felt it was a personal conviction to us, but we didn’t think that other people needed to do what we did. And I was really worried about that. I mean, honestly, my younger years, I struggled more with being a people pleaser, and that was the biggest thing. I was afraid I’d lose friends. But in so doing, I ended up finding new friends and different people that were like minded that I grew close to that I would have never met.

Does that mean you did lose some friends?

Well, yeah, it is actually true. And when I say lose, it’s not like lose forever. In a sense. I think it was just our paths weren’t totally we weren’t totally different paths, so we just didn’t our paths didn’t cross as often. Right. And so, like, if you’re dropping your kids off at the same school every day and you’re like, Oh, hey, and you’re chit chatting while you’re dropping the kids off and you go, Hey, let’s go get coffee. That’s a very different experience than being in your home every single day, knowing the other person’s dropped their kid off. But you still have work to do and you’re not available. I will.

Say that was a big benefit of not sitting in my car in line to pick up my.

Child. Yeah, that.

Would have just not a line person.

You’re not a line. No. And our kids take after you. Just kidding. But it’s actually kind of funny. Some of our kids don’t know quite how to stand in line. We always have to teach them when we go to like an amusement park or something. We’re like, No, no, you have to stand in line. You can’t just walk up. Why? Oh, it’s so funny. But yeah, so, you know, I didn’t really know a lot of people at first, but it and that’s that was one of the things I think was a hardship was like breaking into communities that are even a couple generations old in a sense that like people were homeschooled together and they were in co-ops as kids together and now they’re moms and they’re home schooling and they’re part of this group, right? Like breaking into that was pretty tough, I’ll be honest, at least in the community that we were in. Um, and it took a while and I don’t really feel like honestly I ever fully broke into those.

So I think our goal was to do one year at a time. Like, you know, there was a lot of fear. And to alleviate that fear at first was to just commit to a year in age. And it just so happens that every year after that she stayed committed. And once Kelsey graduated, she’d done every year. And so it just makes sense.

Well, yeah. I mean, once you get through like kindergarten the first time, you realize how easy kindergarten is, So then you’re like, Well, I can of course do kindergarten for all the kids. Like you just kind of like, you know, and the more and more kindergarten years you get under your belt, it’s just like, I don’t know. It’s like making bread. It’s easy.

Yeah. So. So let’s back up for a second. So we decided to homeschool and then we went to our first homeschool conference.

Oh, this is funny. So we decided that we were going to this was like before we actually were like homeschooling. This was we, we were like, okay, we’re leaning this way, but we’re going to go to a homeschool conference and this will we’re going.

To go learn together.

We’re going to go learn. And it was we were excited to go to the workshops, but we were also like most excited. I was most excited about the vendor hall because I wanted to get my fingertips on the curriculums and flip through them and be able to like physically hold them and touch them. Because I’d been doing all this research in catalogs because Google was not.

What we were living outside of Portland. And so we went to the Ocean Network Homeschool Conference, which is their main conference there in Oregon, and that’s the one we kept going to a few times.

Yeah, we went like 3 or 4 times and then I eventually was speaking at it 1 or 2 times.

So but that first time I remember going there and I don’t know, I just didn’t quite fit in. I don’t know why. I just didn’t feel like that was, you know, my group of people at first.

Well, I’m going to tell you guys a little funny story. When we first pulled up and we walked in, Isaac grabbed my hand and he kind of nudged me and said, hey, can I talk to you out on the front deck? And we’d go back out on the front deck. And he goes, okay, listen, so this homeschooling thing, I’m going to be open minded. So remember that when I say this and I’m like, okay. He goes, okay, I’m going to be open minded, but I’m married this. And he, like, pointed his finger and he ran up and down he goes, We’re not. We are choosing a lifestyle choice that we’re going to try for a year or two and we’re going to see how this homeschooling thing works. But I married you the way you are. We’re not going to conform our other lifestyles to like, you know, white kids, long denim jumpers and hair down to our ankles.

Not saying that there’s anything wrong with that. It’s just that’s not how we were ever know.

And Isaac was. We’re just not the type of people that are conformists. If anything, we’re like super skeptical. I would say super, super skeptical and just. Want to verify and test everything by the word of God. And we just we personally were like, okay, we’re not just going to jump into everything that we see here, because it was pretty obvious when we went to the homeschool conference the first year that we probably stood out like a sore thumb.

Yeah, Yeah. So and as the as obviously the conference grew, you know, and went to the convention center in Portland, then you know that next year there was a much bigger mix of all kinds of different people, even non-believers.

Yeah, yeah.

But no, also really nice people once we got to know people and so forth. But it ended up being a really fruitful experience. But we really had to pave the way. We weren’t part of some kind of homeschooling thing, like there.

Was no network that we were ever a part of or even knew about. And I guess like, you know, now there’s all these things that are coming out, right? There’s documentaries and there’s all kinds of things in the last few years that have been coming out and revealing, you know, I would say, some extreme views on different things. And of course, there’s always a temptation with anything for there to be ditches in the road. Right, guys? And we’re one of the things that I think is a blessing. The blessing side of being a first generation homeschooler is that we were unaware of all of those things and we didn’t get sucked into them. And so we never really we didn’t ever attend anything. So other than the Ocean Network Homeschool Conference. And then I spoke at a conservative homeschool conference once, too.

And so it was just, you know, researching what curriculum to use and these kinds of things. And that’s one of the reasons you created the homeschool blueprint, because.

You wanted to make it easy for.

Make it easy to do the thinking and processing motivation and planning.

To get.

Going, to gear the homeschooling also to the unique personality of their child to maximize the learning experience and outcomes and to really get homeschoolers, no matter how new or experienced they are at it to a place of making better decisions.

Well, and I think that, you know, for me, when I went to the homeschool conference, the first thing like the reason why we went was because I needed to know how to homeschool. I was like, Just tell me how to do it. How do I do this? Like, I need someone to just tell me what I’m supposed to do. And no one could do that. None of the workshops could ever do that because homeschooling, once you’re in it for any amount of time, you start to realize, Oh, I see why it’s so difficult for people to teach on this, because it’s different based upon families needs different kids, wiring, learning styles, all the things that you were just mentioning. And so when we made the Homeschooling Blueprint course, we also wanted to add in the vision and the whys to kind of encourage moms to keep on keeping on, because it is hard in the sense because it is the harder path. It really does take sacrifice. You have to be willing to have dirty dishes in the sink so you can finish the science curriculum.

What was the hardest thing about it for you? At what point did it get the hardest?

I don’t know. There have been a lot of different hard points, but I would say like when we were on bedrest, when I was on bed rest with our sixth and I had five kids under nine and three of them were being homeschooled and then I still had these other two kids that were really young and needed mom. But I was on bed rest with the baby. That was the hardest. That’s when I felt like a failure as a mom. And I had family members saying, You need to put them in school. And and then, of course, that makes me doubt myself again. And thank goodness for biblical community, because the people that God had placed in our life at that time, these older women, they had already raised most of their kids. They’re like, No, no, no, I’ll come in your house and I’ll do all the cooking. Another one was like, I’ll come and clean. And another was like, All homeschool your kids. And they would they spoke life into me and they helped me get through those six weeks that like first six weeks that were so hard. And then the second six weeks of those three months was a lot easier. And I started being able to do a little bit more. And but honestly, like, imagine if we would have made that decision. It probably would have completely changed our story. And you guys, I cannot I cannot imagine what life would be like if we would have changed the trajectory of our family.

The sibling relationships, The sense of teamwork would not be the same as it is now.

The family culture would have been completely different. Like we even talked to our kids about this, where we’re like every decision that we have made, like regarding choosing the harder path has literally completely impacted our family culture and our legacy forever.

And by the way, our kids are not socially awkward. And, you know, I think it’s because partly we’re not socially awkward and they’re around people. But it just so happens when they’re young, we’re able to influence who we’re around and have age integration and all be spending time together. It’s just way more healthy. And they’ve all had the older ones at least have had opportunities to be lights to others in relationships and so forth. And it’s just a really been a beautiful thing. I want to take a moment and give you something for free if you haven’t got it already. Is the. Date night. One sheet. It is a beautiful document you can download that will have some key questions on it for your date night to just get in alignment about what’s most important for your family. No matter what time of year, it’s always important to recalibrate. You can get that by going to courageous Parenting.com and subscribing to our mailing list. Also, you can get all of our show notes and everything at Courageous Parenting.com. And I also just want to share real quick about the Parenting Mentor program. So many families are being transformed by going through this. It’s the six week self-paced program with live engagement from us and even direct interaction. So if you want to join us, here’s a little bit more about it and you can find out more at Courageous Parenting.com.

Stephen, I realized that we were getting too comfortable with the world’s vision of how to raise our children, but.

Angie and Isaac have done in creating this is literally phenomenal.

This program provided awesome scripture based teachings and just some really great practical applications.

This class has just really rocked my world.

It has given me the vision for not just the different things that we might focus on as parents who are trying to raise our kids biblically, like how our kids are behaving or what we’re doing with discipline, but also the things of the heart.

We now have a game plan to how we want to raise our children. We have so many answers to the questions that have been in our mind.

It’s not just these hypothetical situations or it’s not just this. Here’s what I think you should do. It’s let me show you where in Scripture this is.

Do your legacy.

A favor and yourself a favor and just do it.

One of the best things that we’ve done this year, one of the best investments we’ve made this year, and I could not recommend it more.

We’re no longer fearing dark days ahead, but we’re so excited to raise lights to be leaders for the next generation.

Yeah, it has. And I think, too, that, you know, now looking back, I do wish that there was like an older mom that I could say was in my life for a really long time mentoring me through homeschooling. And but I can’t I’ve had a couple women during my short period when I was on bed rest that spoke truth about know you can get through this season and your kids are learning so much. They’re learning the value of life and all kinds of really life giving, just really encouraging messages. And they put their their feet and their hands to work and they served and they helped my kids. So they didn’t get behind in their schooling. And, you know, I think that that’s really what the body of Christ that’s the support that that homeschool families need is not this like expectations. And you have to reach these this and this and this or you’re failing. It’s like, are we truly encouraging one another and being the support of Bible believing community?

Yeah, and we’ve talked about this in other episodes, so I won’t too much. But again, just what is the outcome? What is the end goal of their educational experience? Is it knowledge? Well, I hope that’s part of it. That’s really important, right? Super important. We got the basics. Math, science, English, other things. Right. We got to reading. We got to get those done. But is there a way to do that in a more delight directed way.

Which, you know, that just reminds me, a few weeks ago we did a podcast that was on the balance between academics and life skills. If you if that if what Isaac’s talking about is resonating with you and you’re like, you want more of that, we cover that in a whole podcast like a month ago, so go look up that podcast.

But then it’s also what are the other outcomes you want? Is it what life skills do you want them to experience? There’s only so much time, right? And you only have so much time with them, even if you’re homeschooling with them because you have multiple kids and you got lots of different things going on. Wow. The ability to disciple. This is one of the biggest things I think Angie woke me up to is, wow, look at this opportunity to disciple our kids because they’re with us while they’re young so that they can stand firm, so they’re filled up and they know biblical truth. And at some point, God gets a hold of their heart and they accept the Lord, Lord willing, Right? It’s only the Lord’s doing, but you’re pointing them to Christ, and then they become agents for change in the community. We’re experiencing that. We’ve launched a couple kids and we have a grandchild now and it’s just amazing. We just all were together for Zander’s two year old birthday, and it is so amazing to all be together like that and just.

And to be doing worship like we all sat around and did worship.

Together. And I just think this is the dream. I literally we used to dream about this and it’s happening before our eyes where they all love the Lord and they have good relationships and they’re playing and we’re all together and we’re singing worship music around the fire, and we’re celebrating the life of a two year old together. It was beautiful.

And then there’s like a value of the older kids to come back and celebrate the two year old birthday like that is what really means a lot to me. Is that they understand their influence and they value his life and cherish him in that kind of way. And that’s really special.

And that you don’t accomplish that by going a bunch of different directions. And if you have multiple kids never.

Eating dinner together, never eating.

Dinner together, there’s all kinds of repercussions and challenges of going the normal way. We often say normal Christian parenting just isn’t working these days very well, and it takes doing things differently. I think home schooling is one of those things. We’re not people that says everybody needs to homeschool, but I think everybody should consider it. It may, for whatever reason, not be a good fit for you guys, but at least considering it and finding ways to be able to still disciple your children, it’s so important.

Well, you know, one of the other questions that we get a lot is how did you learn to homeschool if you weren’t homeschooled and your husband wasn’t homeschooled and you didn’t have a homeschool mentor, how did you learn to homeschool? Well, we did mention that we went to a few homeschool conferences, and when we lived in Portland, we went to the Ocean Network, I think a total of 4 or 5 times. That’s what I’m thinking in the last 19 years. But but truly, like in the last 11 years, I think we’ve gone once. And part of the reason why is because really, if you’ve been to one, you’ve kind of been to them all. And like in one sense, I do think that sometimes there’s really good workshops like on how to teach lefties how to write. That was a really good workshop because I now I have two left handed kids, right? And so, um, you know, there’s some really practical workshops that are good and it’s neat if you can go with like your co-op and a community and you can have a day with other moms. I really enjoyed doing those kinds of things. But what I also have found is that reading books like Truly for me, because we weren’t part of any network and we were first generation homeschoolers and we didn’t know anyone who was homeschooling a lot of like my original, like, how did you learn how to homeschool? Came from reading some books. I read. The first book I read that encouraged me to homeschool was When You Rise Up by R.C. Sproul and I love that book. I’ve recommended it a thousand times. Another is Educating the Whole Hearted Child by Sally Clarkson.

It’s a fantastic book and it’s been around for over two decades because I read it two decades ago. Another is a Charlotte Mason companion, which is a gentle art of learning. And that’s just like talking about this concept of like reading and literature based education. That book blew my mind because obviously being raised in the public education system and trying to detox, like you said, and rethink what education can be. I was like, What? You can actually just you can read to your kids and that’s like enough. And I of course, because I have my education, I also did a classical model mixed in with that. But but that’s the thing is like when you’re on a journey as a first generation homeschooler, you don’t just do what was done to you. And I think that that does tend to happen a little bit more because they’re like, Oh, it worked for me, I’m going to use this too, and that’s great. And in my opinion, that’s like standing on the shoulders of people who have gone before you. I’m all about that. But that wasn’t our story. And so for for me and for Isaac and for our kids, it was a lot of learning as we go and going, Wow, this curriculum doesn’t work. Let’s chuck that one, put that on a shelf and save it for another kid or a rainy day. And like not having guilt about that was really hard for me at first because I was all about being frugal and wanting to finish things and doo doo doo doo doo. And I had to be sanctified.

I think it’s really important to not to be all in one direction, meaning like only using this one companies or this one organizations materials because that may or may not work for some of the personalities and so forth. And you may not realize that some of the things we’re recently hearing about that happen in the homeschool community that we never knew about or were part of the things coming out is like there was led by this one man or something like that. And you have to be careful because whoever you point to, you’re saying follow that person and be like that person. And you’re saying that let them have authority in your life and influence. And I am thankful that we never did that. We never pointed to somebody, whether on purpose or not, and said, you need to always follow them, other than when we took people to churches and the elders and and pastors and so forth, you’re you’re doing that. But ultimately, we you know, I was the leader of my family. Andrew was a leader, too. And and and being a team and leading our family, I think that’s really important. So just think about that. Are we overly pointing to anybody, a human being that’s fallible to your kids that could become dangerous down the road?

Right. And I you know, you can’t, like endorse anybody unless you know them in real life. And even then it’s like, what’s the why would you do that? Why don’t we just endorse Jesus, right? Just like really praying about our decisions and seeking God’s. Wisdom and will for our families, which may not look the same and it may not look the same for each kid. And knowing that and knowing that God is a is has a unique purpose and design for each kid actually gave me the freedom to just take one year at a time. When we first got started, which was a much easier commitment in my mind because if you would have asked me back when we were going to be homeschooling second grade for the first time, people literally once they found out, they’re like, So are you going to homeschool through high school? I’m like, Um, we’re just going to do second grade. And then I’ll tell you if I’m going to do third grade, like, you know, But it was overwhelming for me to be thinking about that. So here’s a little tip. If you’re a grandparent and you’re listening, if your kids start homeschooling your grandkids, don’t ask them if they’re going to go through junior high or high school. Let them get through one grade first. Just, you know, just encourage them, support them. Join in on the fun field trips, offer to help with anything like can I just say, like the most practical help? The best help that I could ever get was not someone sitting down and doing school with my kids.

That’s that’s like that’s like the special sauce right there. I want to be doing that. The biggest blessing is if someone would come in and fold laundry or cook a dinner or bring a meal over, join me on a field trip when you have a lot of littles so that you can so mom can really focus on the learning part of the field trip with the older kids like that would be huge just to have that kind of support. And so there’s a little tip for grandparents and friends of people who homeschool. But, you know, I think that it would be important to share with you guys. So when when I share books like I don’t share books very often book recommendations, just because you never know what’s going to happen to people in the future. But truly, the books, the content in the books really did open my mind to seeing a bigger picture for what homeschooling could be. And so there’s just a few other books I wanted to share with you guys. One is called For the Children’s Sake. It’s Foundations of Education for Home and School. Another was the Ordinary Parents Guide to Teaching. Reading that book had a lot of tips in it for how to teach your kids how to read, which honestly was the hardest thing for me to like figure out at first. And then, you know, five in a row I mentioned that before is such a great like first easy curriculum to be doing with preschoolers, and it’s just fun to really instill a love for learning.

And I guess that that’s really like the heart of what homeschooling changed in me was realizing that learning is something we do all our lives, and if I can give my kids one thing, it’s that they would have like grow in a teachable heart with a desire to always be growing and learning. And that, I do believe has been passed on. Like when I look at the the three kids that are graduated, they all want to keep learning things. And I love that. That was my main goal. If you teach your kids that and you give them the tools on how to research, how to learn, they can learn anything. Sky’s the limit. And so and then when it comes to discipleship, Isaac already went over that. But you need time to do both. And they’re just I think that that like the stewardship of time you guys, we go over like the 11 main reasons why we homeschool in a different podcast. You can go look it up. It’s called 11 Reasons Why We Homeschool. That was a really popular podcast in our first season of the podcast. Um, and I’m not going to go over them all here, but I would say like just even stewarding your time well and staying productive, teaching your children how to do that, that’s a huge for character and all those things.

It’s huge. So where are you at three graduated and what’s the job left?

So we have six more kids that we’re educating now. We have 16 year old, 14 year old, 12 year old, seven four and two. So I’m going to be at this for at least another 16 years. I got 16 years left. How old are.

You going to be in 16 years?

Oh, honey. Oh, he did not. I’ll be 59. I’ll be almost 60 years old.

I love that.

Actually, I’ll probably graduate. And when I turn 60, we’ll have a big old celebration.

That is so.

Awesome. Yeah, but, you know, it’s so funny. Like, I want to share with you guys just this one thing. Like, God’s will for our lives is so much better than our own. Um, homeschooling has been a really sanctifying journey for me. I’ve said a couple of times it’s been harder, but that doesn’t mean that it’s been worse. It’s actually better. Like it’s made me a better person for sure. And I know that now I’m at the place. Yes, I’ve graduated three. So like, of course I’m homeschooled. Like I’m at the place where I just I don’t even think a second thing of it. I’m homeschooling all my kids all the way through, Lord willing. But I will say, like having the fruit and looking at the relationships and looking at like even when there’s conflict in those relationships and how like there is a fighting for unity and there is a love for the Lord, and like that was the core of their entire childhood. And so. Like that’s what strength of family is built on. Is that discipleship that only truly like and it’s a discipleship even within relationships and how to navigate relationships and all of that. And I’m really thankful for it. It’s it’s a messy road sometimes physically and emotionally and relationally like in all the ways. But in the end there’s just so much fruit that now I look at the fruit and even though my kids are not perfect. It’s my motivation for continuing on because I’m like, Well, praise the Lord and see what he’s done. And I’m really thankful. So it’s it’s worth it. I just want to encourage you, moms who are maybe in the trenches and you’re like, Oh, I can’t envision going another this many years. I’m 19 years in, like I said, and I got 16 years left. And this is a person who never thought they would be a teacher. So if I can do it, you can do it.

Absolutely. And you know what? God made you the parents of your children on purpose for important things to do. And he will give you the strength. He will give you the wisdom. There’s so many resources out nowadays, so many people doing it. It’s not even a faith based thing. There’s people all over non-believers, believers doing the homeschooling because it is more fruitful. The test scores are higher, all kinds of things, but there are ditches that people can get into and you want to stay out of the ditches. Legalism. When you’re around, when the family’s always together, you know, or together more that can that can lead into some legalism if you’re careful to make sure it doesn’t. And what do I mean by that? Extra rules that go along with Christianity that some start to feel like from the kids that they’re tied into your faith. And that is really dangerous. I am thankful that we have stayed away from all of that. It appears that that has been an issue out there, looking at some of the documentaries coming out. But you know what? It is so important not to get in the ditch, read the Bible. But yeah, you’re going to have some rules in your house. But really, it needs to be about experiencing God. Relationship with God is so important. Let’s not get so too caught up and tangled in so many other extra biblical rules that make it arduous to walk with the Lord.

You know, it’s interesting. It’s it’s not just about it being arduous to walk with the Lord, although that’s a that’s the main issue, right? But there’s also like what character is being built in the kids that are growing up in the legalistic homes. Right. And that is very that that is something that you need to judge the fruit of what potentially could be growing in your child. Like for us, we never wanted our kids. We saw that there was an extra critical spirit among some homeschooling groups. We saw that early on because we felt persecuted by them. But then we also felt persecuted by the non homeschooling. Wait a.

Minute. Remember that your girls are wearing jeans.

I know it was super strange like, but yes. So we never were in the like. Um. Yeah, I’m not going to go there. But the, the whole point is that there are ditches on both sides, right? And we talked already about how we experience some persecution slash not supportive from family and even friends that were not homeschooling, but then being a part of moving in and choosing to homeschool, it was hard to find people, especially living in Portland, that were like minded because we were judged by them by not being conservative enough, I guess is the best way to put it right in some.

Extra things like, yeah, you know, dress and.

Modesty was a really big thing. Now can I. I just want to say something about modesty. You can have modest rules and we can be friends. It’s totally fine. But if I feel like you’re judging me when I have my. I’m walking humbly before the Lord and I’ve asked him to make me aware of anything I need to change. And I have a clear conscience. And I’m confident in how I’m dressing or how my kids are dressing. Then don’t be coming and constantly judging me. Right? And that that was the hard part, was that there was ditches on both sides. The non homeschoolers and then the homeschoolers that were extra conservative would judge those of us that were first generations that were coming in that were like wearing pants and, you know, dress trendy. I guess.

So. So another thing that we also saw and we stayed away from is treating the boys and girls differently in terms of academics. Yes. And we made a decision. I remember talking about this right at the beginning. It’s like, no, we are going to treat our boys and girls equally. Yes. Because they are equal. They’re equally smart, equal potential, all these things. And we’re going to give them the same opportunity, the same education across the board. It doesn’t matter what their gender is.

Right. And you know, guys, one, if you want vision for why we chose that to like, yes, my heart and prayer is that my grandkids would be homeschooled. I’m just going to share that. My kids all know it. It’s not something I have to apologize for saying. I, I and I’m thankful that they all have a vision so far of wanting to do that. Um, but in, in knowing that vision and raising my kids and not just homeschooling to them, but teaching them the why of mommy and daddy doing this really big lifestyle change where nobody we know is doing this. We taught them the why behind why we were doing it, and it made sense to them and they got it and they understood it and they were thankful for it, actually. And it’s interesting because when you teach your kids that perspective and that why, then they’re generally going to want to do it. And so that being said, I wanted my girls to be educated just as much as my boys for multiple reasons. And one was that hopefully they’ll be home schooling my grandkids and if they are educated well, then that’s just a head step. Then over what I had when I started homeschooling them. Because truly, as I’ve been homeschooling, it’s been redemptive for me. I’ve been redeeming my own education, even though I was I was almost yeah, I did really, really well in school and through college. Looking back, I’m like, whoa. I had no idea. When I started homeschooling, I relearned so many things and it’s just.

I think, you know, it’s just like, you know, we don’t know what God’s plan is exactly for our children. We know that likely our daughters are going to become wives and mothers.

And that’s what they.

Both do. And that’s great. And we believe in biblical gender roles, but not the ditches on that side. Right. You know, being a leader as a husband is a servant leader, serving your family, not lording over these kinds of things. Right. So it’s so important. But we don’t know, you know, let’s give them the equal education. Let’s pour into them equally. And while they might have some different things they’re interested in, that’s true.

Life skills.

That life skills is going to be. That’s just true for all kids, regardless of gender. They have different personalities, different interests and things like that cater to those things, but give an equal investment across the board. That was our commitment. We are so thankful we did that and continue to do that.

So as we are moving on into the the next podcast you guys, we have, we are open. If you guys have questions, email Isaac at Isaac at Courageous Parenting and please join us in the Be Courageous app. We have a community of some amazing families there that are like minded supporting one another. In fact, we had one single mom in there that had a daughter who was really struggling with cancer. And the Be Courageous app community raised some funds to support her, which was super, super special. So I’m just really encouraged by what I’m seeing with like even the prayer requests and then people praying for one another. There’s a lot of really cool stuff that’s happening along with all the other features. So.

All right. Thanks for joining us.

See you next time. Hey, thanks for listening. And being a part of the 10 Million Legacies movement, go to be courageous Ministry org for more biblically based resources. Ways to switch where you spend your money that support the mission and information about the incredible be courageous app community for believers.

Also we wanted to quickly tell you about our six week online parenting mentor program.

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This is an incredible self-paced program. We cover everything from tending to their hearts, handling obedience to overcoming mistakes most Christians are making. But more than that, it’s a supportive community. You’ll have access to our private group and the Be Courageous app, live webcasts and direct access to us.

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