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Full Transcript:

Note: This is an automated transcript and misspells or grammar errors may be present.

Welcome to Courageous Parenting Podcast, a weekly show to equip parents with biblical truth on raising confident Christian kids in an uncertain world.

Hi, I’m Angie from Courageous.

Mom and Isaac from Resolute Man Together pursuing the mission to impact 10 million families and their legacies for the Kingdom of God.

We’ve been married for 23 years and are seeing the fruit from raising our nine children biblically. Based on the raw truth found in the Bible.

We can no longer let the culture win the hearts of children, as too many from Christian families are walking away from their faith by the age of 18. And it doesn’t have to be this way. It shouldn’t be this way.

We’re praising the Lord. That ministry continues to expand and impact more legacies. We couldn’t do this without you. Whether you pray for us, give us five star reviews, or share on social.

Or even if you purchase courses and merch or join the Be Courageous app community, enjoy the coffee or support financially. We’re so thankful you are a big part of the 10 Million Legacies movement.

If you want access to all the episodes, show notes, and other biblically based resources, go to Be Courageous Ministry.

Org. Join us as we start another important conversation about effective parenting in a fallen world. Hi everyone. Welcome to the podcast. Hey guys. So glad you’re here. We’re behind the scenes, uh, sharing a little bit about us that maybe you’ve never heard before. In fact, I know some of it you haven’t heard before.

Yeah. I mean, some of the questions that we’re going to ask each other, they the answers have changed over the years.

Yeah. And there’s a lot going on with the ministry too. But I think out of our stories and insights, I think it may be one of the most practical and helpful episodes you’ve listened to in a while, just because sometimes that’s where the real wisdom lies in people’s experiences.

Yeah, you never know what we’re going to talk about today. It’s gonna be fun. No. So we’re super excited that you’re here with us today. You guys, this podcast actually marks you know, I think it was in between last week’s podcast. And this week’s podcast was the actual date of the very first Courageous Parenting podcast that came out five years ago. And so we just wanted to do kind of a fun episode today because we’re celebrating.

Absolutely. And by the way, if you’ve never listened to episode one, go listen to it. It’s about 30 minutes and it really talks about how to set your family up right for the new year and do some visioning together with your children and how to do that. Uh, such a good episode. But anyways, we’re going to get behind the scenes here in a second. You know, I think one of the things, as we’ve been doing this ministry for five years that we’ve always known, but it’s been fun to talk about recently, is that it’s been all about evangelism.

It really has. That’s the heart of why we do what we do. It is it’s helping parents to disciple their children, which is the Great Commission.

What’s what’s a way? There’s many ways, but what’s a way to have an indelible impact on the world. And God put us on this journey together. Five year anniversary. And as we reflect, we’re like, wow, it’s really to evangelize the next generation and how I believe is the most effective way to evangelize the next generation is to equip parents on how to do that. From a biblical standpoint, relative to the challenges that are in society today in the world, they’re going to be launching into and really equipping them to do that. And when I look at the numbers, numbers are just something. But when I look at the numbers, it’s super encouraging because 1.1 million downloads happened so far this year from 189 countries.

That’s incredible, you guys. So we just want to give glory to the Lord, because really, this ministry is all just because we love him. And we were saying yes. And being obedient to something that we really believed that God was calling us to do. Stepping out in faith. You guys know some of our story with that. Um, and so we’re not going to talk about that too, too much. But it really is incredible. We’re about to hit 4 million downloads for five years. Yeah. And that’s I mean that’s incredible.

So then you might have seen an email or some of our, you know, conversations and things that, you know, we really feel like the Lord has prompted us towards double impact this year. Yeah, double impact with the downloads. But it’s deeper than that. It’s much more important than that. It’s the real indelible impact from the courses and the free resources, the workshops, the different things that we’re putting out there. And we have so much motivation. And so probably in the middle somewhere, we’ll share some of those concrete things that we hope to do, which you just.

Mentioned, something I don’t know if our listeners know we have a free parenting workshop.

Biblical parenting in a Changed World comes with a 13 page download Go to Be Courageous Ministry org, and you’ll see it right there. You can click and sign up. It is really, really powerful.

45 Minute workshop, you guys. We did. Isaac and I had so much fun preparing for this workshop that we’re excited to share it with you guys. So go.

Go sign up for that if you haven’t already. But there’s so many good resources there. And then at Courageous Parenting com you can get all the show notes from this and also information about the Parenting Mentor program and other courses too. So let’s dive in. You know, there’s probably several things we’re going to share our favorite scriptures in a little bit. But so there’s some things you may not know about us. There’s a lot of, you know, we had to learn a lot of the things that we’re teaching today. And first, we’re so thankful for God’s, uh, wisdom for the people he’s put in our path, for the experiences we’ve had that have helped shape us to be able to do this, that we didn’t know we were going to be doing this. But how cool is that? That God has a plan for all of us, doesn’t he? And you know, we’re first generation homeschoolers.

We’re first generation homesteaders. Really?

First generation.

On my.

Side. Large family.

Oh, which on both sides?

God has a unique plan for every family, so that’s fine, but.

But we didn’t know what it looked like. Like the whole point in telling you guys that it’s interesting because when you have a big family, sometimes people assume that you always set out to have a big family. Maybe you came from a big family and neither of us come from large families.

It was a new concept that gradually happened. Um, and it was something we. Yeah. And.

You can hear more of our testimony in one of our podcasts where we share about, um, family size and things like that. But for here’s here’s the nutshell. Our life is truly a reflection of of what it’s looked like for us to be surrendered to the Lord and just pray each time through those decisions and following his will for our family, his will for your family may be different, but for our family. So and, you.

Know, building a purposeful legacy was on our minds since the beginning. Praise the Lord. We had a lot to learn as we went. But, you know, I’m so thankful. The hardest decisions we’ve made were the most fruitful decisions, the hardest meaning that unpopular. Going against the grain of even our own Christian circles. We may have been at the time or these kinds of things really, you know, making a hard choice about, you.

Know, being a stay at home mom.

Lots of things, a huge thing. There’s numerous things. And when I think back, those hard things were worth it. I remember at one point just going, is it worth it, this intentional parenting, because it was costly. In some cases it cost. Relationships didn’t have to. But unfortunately that happens sometimes. People sometimes.

Don’t want.

To. It cost, uh, you know, some some finances, finances, it costs, uh, just, uh, I don’t know, there was just the easier road in the moment in the short terme was. Interesting was he looked like maybe. Maybe it’s just not worth it to go the harder road all the time. And you know what? We’d always come back together and go, it’s worth it.

It’s worth it.

Yeah. The short tum pain. Long tum gain. Let’s go.

Yeah, 100%. No regrets.

No regrets at all. In fact, I look back and that.

Doesn’t mean that we’re perfect. Don’t. Don’t confuse the two. Just because we’re saying we don’t have regrets doesn’t mean that we’re saying that we’re perfect. Because that’s not true. Yeah.

We’re very you know, we’re pretty optimistic. I would say I’m a little more optimistic than Angie, but but it’s just we’re wired a little bit differently. But I’m very optimistic I’m optimistic this year. Next year double vision. Right. I’m optimistic about all kinds of things. How can you be optimistic? People wonder when there’s so much challenge happening. I mean, Civil War is trending number one on Twitter right now.

Oh, wow. I didn’t even know that.

And that’s not about football either. So, uh, that’s so funny. Anyways, you know why? Well, because God’s moving and I trust God, and I love God, and we’ve.

Seen him be faithful throughout our lives.

And there’s always as the as the dark gets darker, the light shines brighter. It’s more easy to see more people come to to the Lord, but more people see the joy in you when there’s when the world says there’s nothing to be joyous about. So I think that it’s an exciting time. It’s a fascinating time. It’s the greatest time ever to be alive. Why? Because this is when God wanted me to be alive. So why wouldn’t I just believe it’s the greatest time to be alive? If that’s God’s plan, I should believe that. Because that’s his plan for you. For me?

Totally. And for me. Because I’m here, too. Yeah. And and our kids are here. And so to trust him with our children and recognizing that he chose them to live during their generation. And we hear that. But do we actually believe it? And I think that, you know, part of that process of trusting God and choosing the hard road comes from a foundation of trusting God with our kids. Also. It does. And I that is a hard thing. It’s not something that you do one time and then you’re good to go and you’ve just trusted God with your kids. No, once you have children, you understand that it’s a daily dying to self as a parent, whether that is dying to your own selfish desires, dying to yourself regarding servanthood, dying to yourself, regarding faithfulness and being a consistent disciplinarian, a consistent, faithful servant in your home and your marriage with your kids. Every aspect of life. We are met at crossroads.

Yeah, I mean, things were worse. I mean, I was just we just redid the set and I and I kept this up there. If you’re you’d have to be on YouTube or rumble, uh, to see what I’m talking about. But there’s this, there’s this antique spike, and it’s this one in particular because the area I’m in is probably from a railroad tie. But this spike reminded me so much of the spikes that similar spikes that were probably used to nail Jesus to the cross. And I just, you know, um, you know, things have been tough since near the beginning, not the beginning, because in the garden, it was perfect until sin entered the world. That’s true. But since near the beginning, uh, things have been really tough. And it’s how Christians operate in their circumstances that dictates whether someone can see something different or not. And I’m so thankful for what Jesus did for me and for you and for my wife and for my children and for so many people. So there’s a lot to be thankful for when we really have perspective. But if we’re glued to the news and the bad news and we’re not glued to the Bible, then there’s a problem. And in that problem will persist throughout your legacy into your children not having children because they won’t have hope in the world. So we have to be real careful about that.

Okay, you just queued your first. I was gonna ask you, what is one of we’re going to share each going to share two of our right now favorite Bible verses, which is kind of hard to narrow down if you guys have ever tried that, because there are so many good passages. And of course, over your lifetime, isn’t it true that certain passages just mean more to you during different seasons in your life? Right. But we thought that we would just share with you guys some of the things that God’s just laid on our hearts. And so what you were just talking about goes along with one of your favorite.

Oh, James one five through eight. When I was a new believer at age 23, the book of James, of course, the book of John. It’s a good book for new believers. I was reading studying that, of course, but the book of James was so good. And I think it’s just I think it just comes down to to the point. I mean, James is my kind of guy, just like to the point say it how it is. Give the truth. You know, you don’t need to sugarcoat it. I’m like, yes, when I’m yes, that’s right on. You know, I remember being like that as a new believer. I still love this. James. Uh, one five through eight. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask. God is wisdom worthy? Proverbs talks about it so priceless. It’s so better than gold. It’s amazing, right? If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. It will be not maybe be given. I love that promise. I’m like, if I ask with faith for wisdom, God will give it to me. Yeah, I believe that. And I see how that belief in my life has been transformative. I don’t need to operate my own strength. I don’t need to know how to do everything. I don’t need to look like I know how to do everything.

I just need Jesus’s wisdom. I need access to the divine God’s wisdom, which we all have. And then it says a warning next. But let him ask in faith with no doubting. Well, how about just a little bit of doubting? No, it says no. No doubting. A little bit of doubt. You’re out. I don’t really like saying that because I don’t want to add to the Bible. But when no means no, I think right. It says no doubting, not some doubting. Okay, so no doubting. For the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind, for that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord. Oh wow. Ask with faith, with no doubting, or you’re not going to receive anything from the Lord. That’s pretty clear. Okay? And for that person must not suppose you receive anything from the Lord. He is a double minded man, unstable in all his ways. And you know, here I am, a new dad, new believer. You know, as of a year and a half or two, I must have been two years at that point. And when the baby was born. And I’m like, I need to be stable. I have a family now, I love God. You know, this is so important. So good.

Yeah. What’s one to do? Just that. That aspect of, like, being a new parent and a father specifically and going, oh, I need to be stable. How many people does that speak to right now? Like, that’s actually that’s a whole nother thing you could be going off on. That’s amazing.

Plus, you know, learning how to be a dad, not having those Christian father role models in my life and having to learn all this stuff, that I really took comfort in that because I didn’t need to embrace any insecurities. I didn’t need to use any, uh, excuses for my past. I didn’t need to know everything all at once. I trusted that as I walked forward with the Lord that he would give me wisdom. And he did. He continues to do.

He still does. It’s true. You know, I also I, I am challenged by this just the the subject of asking in faith without doubting how many people struggle with that. And and that is a season to season, regardless of what season you’re in. This scripture is so relevant, right? Because it’s a challenge for us to really have faith, I love that. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah.

What’s one of yours?

Well, the first verse that came to my mind when we were talking about this was in Mark. It’s also repeated in Matthew, but it’s Mark, chapter 12 verse 30, which says, I mean, well, this is the Scripture that I just have to preface this. This was the scripture that motivated the writing of redeeming childbirth. This was the Scripture that we founded. The Courageous Parenting Mentor program on. This was the scripture that we founded, the Courageous Marriage Series that is free in the Be Courageous app right now. Yeah, it’s a six hour like mini series, if you will, and it’s a verse that just keeps coming to the forefront because it’s that integral, that foundational is what I mean. And so here it is. Verse 30 says, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength. And the second, so it was a scribe had come to him and asked him what was the greatest commandment, and that was his answer. And then he said in the second one is to love your neighbor as yourself. And it’s those those two scriptures obviously go together and you can’t have one without the other. Which is why I think Jesus was so strategic. So I mean, obviously he’s God, right? So he’s omniscient, he is all knowing he. And so he’s just creative in his response. What’s interesting is when you read this account, um, in here, it says they stopped asking him more questions after that answer. Right. And I love that because it really is the end all the be all to all things.

And I know that for myself, whenever I am struggling or I’m walking through a season of suffering or I’m I’m needing some perspective when I, I go back to that verse over and over again, I preach it to myself all the time because I’m human, right? Like there are times when I’m tired. Maybe my back hurts. Whether we’ve been doing something physical like homesteading or or maybe it was just carrying five kids to the swimming pool every single, like, you know, Monday, Wednesday and Thursday for eight years straight. And it’s like you get tired, right? And so there are those times where you’re just like, uh, at the end of yourself and you have to remember and love the Lord your God with your whole mind, heart, soul, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. Who’s your neighbor? Well, right then, in those moments, I’m like, okay, my little kids or my neighbors. And that was super convicting to me. It’s sanctifying me because it’s reminding me when I’m at the end of my flesh and I’m tired, cranky, don’t have enough to even smile. Maybe I have a headache, right? No God is sufficient. I need to love them the way he loves me and I got to. I have to make a choice in that moment and my perfect in this. Have I been perfect in this? No, because no human is. But that’s why this verse is so good to preach to ourselves on a regular basis.

It’s so good. We’re going to get we’re going to talk about some marriage stuff, about our own marriage that I think will give some insights. And then we’re going to talk about we’re going to ask each other about our most unique experiences in life. Um, so I think that’ll be interesting. But, uh, another verse, I have one more. Oh yeah. And uh, it is, uh, first Corinthians. I quoted a lot first Corinthians 1613 through 14. Thank you so much. And it’s, it’s it’s about men. I mean, it’s it’s such an important one.

I mean, about all of us.

All of us really. But yeah, I it’s helpful, especially today. Be watchful. Okay. What is watchful all on alert. Be aware I think of also is be watchful for what’s on your wife’s heart. What’s on your children’s heart? Where are the hearts of your people and your family? And be watchful for what’s grabbing their hearts away from truth? What’s causing them to maybe go wayward? So be watchful. There is a spiritual battle I think of good versus evil is real, and that’s happening all the time. And so are you. Watchful. When you’re watchful, you become prayerful. You become interested in the power of prayer and inviting God for protection, for blessing, for overcoming, for miracles to happen, for healing and all these things. I think that ties in to being watchful, which is the first two words of this great verse. And then it says, stand firm. I’m wearing my stand firm hat, uh, stand firm in the faith. Some people are like, what is that? It’s like, stand firm against, you know, left ideology. I’m like, no, no, no, this is stand firm in the faith, baby.

I love it. He’s like, no. First Corinthians. Yeah, come on, first Corinthians.

Stand firm in the faith. Stand firm in the faith. That’s the key.

They need the mug. That’s what they need. They need the stand for mug.

Stand firm. Yeah. In the faith. Most importantly. Oh thank you. Okay. And then it says act like men.

Oh, not.

Boys, not boys like.

Men.

Not babies like men. Yeah. Be strong. And that I don’t let this next part out. This is so important. It has to go with it. Verse 14. Let all that you do be done in love.

Oh doesn’t it? It’s so interesting.

It softens.

It. It does soften it, but it’s also like, hey, if you’re a man, then you can handle this next part, because real men can do this all in love.

Yeah. But if they don’t do it in love, you’re like, eh? Yeah. I mean, you can get people to take action by.

Being a tyrant.

With your tyrant and your loud words and your manipulative words and your influential words and whatever you want to call them. You can make things happen. But is it done in love? If it’s not done in love, you might be one of those religious versus relationship poems. Which was last week’s episode.

Yep, yep, yeah, we’ve been learning a lot. My second verse that I wanted to share with you guys today, um, it was hard to pick a second one, but I have been personally spending time in Romans lately. And, um, you know, the first part of Romans is really challenging, like, you like, as far as reading it to children, it’s there’s a lot of things in there that it’s going to ask a lot of questions. If you haven’t had some serious conversations. But it’s very relevant to today. Um, and this is in Romans chapter eight, it’s verses 12 through 15. I had a really hard time not reading before it because it all kind of goes together. So if you’re encouraged by this scripture, I want to exhort you to go and read the first 12 verses above it as well. It says, so then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die. But if you live by the spirit, you put to death the deeds of the body, and you will live for all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Amen.

That is a mark like that is like I literally think to myself in the moment, we could ask ourselves many times throughout the day, am I walking by the spirit or am I walking by the flesh? And and to recognize it? If we live by the spirit and we are led by the Spirit of God, we are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear. So this is talking to people who’ve been saved who maybe conquered sin. They had they became a new creation in Christ. This is so relevant to anyone who’s been a Christian for any length of time. If you’ve been a Christian for a week, read this. If you’ve been a Christian for 20 years, you need to read this, for you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear. But you have received the spirit of adoption as sons by whom we cry, ABBA, father! I love this. And then it goes on talking about becoming heirs of God and children of God. And I love.

How it said not to fear in there.

It does. And it goes along with that first Timothy scripture that says, we’ve not been given a spirit of fear, but of power and love and a sound mind and yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s just all it’s interesting how when you read certain scriptures, how you are reminded of other scriptures that go with it, that are all throughout the whole word, and it’s like it’s alive and active and how relevant it is. And you just start thinking of different times in your life. When those different verses were powerful. And so like, for me, again, this is another verse that regardless of what season you’re in, in life, it’s been a mainstay. It’s been one of those scriptures that reminds me of who I am and God. I’m a child of God. I’m not anything anyone else could ever call me. Yeah, right. And you have to claim that with authority and not in order to not have fear.

Hey, here’s a question for you all. What’s your spouse’s favorite scripture and why? There’s a little marriage challenge I love. If you don’t know which is okay not to know, that’s a great discussion to have. And if they don’t know, then maybe that’s a good journey for them to go on. I mean, this is so important that we’re writing scripture in our hearts by reading it, meditating on it. And, you know, if we don’t have scriptures that really have we can think of that have had an impact on our lives. Maybe we’re just forgetting what they are and that’s okay. But maybe it’s also that we’re not in the word enough, and maybe we’re getting swayed and don’t even realize it because we’re not on the solid Rock the Firm foundation, uh, in our operating in this world. And there’s plenty of forces that want to sway you in one direction or not. In fact, a lot of times what happens is children get older and they they move towards liberalism and parents move away from biblical truth towards that to match what their older children are doing. And you don’t want to be that. You want to be so anchored. We can love and and also loving people, including, you know, unfortunately, if your older children were to go wayward, loving them well while standing firm in the truth, right? We have to be super good at that no matter who it is.

Well, and that’s part of this scripture. Like it’s it’s interesting. It says verse 13, I just want to read it again because it says, for if you live according to. To the flesh, you will die. Okay, so think of all of the sinful flesh. Like even just selfishness, okay? Isn’t it of the flesh to not forgive people? It’s of the flesh. And we’re human, right? We’re mortal. So we have a fleshly, um, nature, and sometimes we have blind spots in our life. And that’s definitely something that like, for me, I would say forgiving has been a thing that I’ve really had to work on. I still have to work on it at times because it comes up and I’m like, wait a second, I thought I already forgave that. Why am I thinking of that again? You know, and that’s because we’re human, actually, and we’re not God. But it says, for if you live according to the flesh, you will die. But if by the spirit, if it says if by the spirit. So you have to be purposeful to do this. But if by the spirit you. So there’s it’s calling us to do something. We have to take personal responsibility. If by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body. So it’s literally not doing those things anymore or, or choosing to do things that are the opposite of what you would do, right? Like if you struggled with holding a grudge or judging people on rightly or, um, or other sins. There’s sexual immorality, there’s, um, crude joking, there’s jealousy, there’s covetousness, there’s keeping up with the Joneses, there’s the comparison trap. There’s, um, putting other people down to make yourself feel better. There’s there’s so many sins that we could just go on, or there’s line, there’s deceit, there’s. I’m thinking through the list that we teach on in the parenting mentor program. Right. We, by the power of the spirit, get to put those deeds to death.

Speaking of the Parenting mentor program, join us, uh, for the next program. It’s talk about a way to kick off the year. Get your marriage aligned, tune it up, build a strong foundation in terms of your plan for parenting biblically in an uncertain times takes way more intentionality than previous generations. Even if you experienced something good in your past, there’s it’s a different world now. It takes a level of courage and intentionality that most marriages just don’t naturally have. I know we didn’t. We had to learn. We had to look in the Bible. We had to have mentors. We had to read. We had to learn and discuss so many marriage conversations. We had to say no to a lot of things that everybody was saying was good, because we believe something was better and it ended up being right. So the Parenting Mentor program really distills down in a practical and helpful way the biblical roadmap, if you will, for parenting. There’s no perfect prescription and it more. What it does is it causes the right marriage conversations to happen, and it causes you to have the right perspective of what to be doing with your children. So you’re tending to their hearts so you have their hearts. So you stay in position of most important resource for wisdom other than the Bible, right in the Holy Spirit. So it’s so important. So anyways, join us courageous Parenting.com for that next one. Over 3000 parents join the movement of really having that foundation. Okay, let’s go into marriage. Uh, next. And what’s your favorite kind of date night?

Well, I think I’ve shared this. I know I’ve shared it, like, at least in the app, when we’ve done Q and A’s and done like, marriage, Q and A’s and stuff like that. But I am also a vision visionary, and I love planning, thinking ahead, dreaming. And so I love our visionary in date nights, which we talk about that in the first. Um, so you’re.

So you’re telling me more than any other kind of date night? Yes. You like the visionary ones? The very, very most I do. All right, I do.

I mean, I even like them over the get dressed up and go out to a nice restaurant anniversary. Like, I don’t know, I just love that. But but I will say that you’re wired that way too. And so a lot of our date nights, we end up talking about that kind of stuff. And so they’re all my favorite.

It’s woven in a little bit. But yeah, you know, I, I really because we’re so moving fast and there’s so much going on I love chilling.

You love the relaxing date. No, I love it.

I’m a visionary and I love, you know, initiating visioneering dates. And those are the we do those and I like those.

Yeah that’s true.

But I really love doing, you know, fun things and hanging out or just having talking and having coffee. That’s great. Yeah. It’s fantastic. A little space, as.

Long as it’s nice.

Little coffee corner.

Let’s. It’s good coffee. I have to confess something to you guys. Um, you know, we have our be courageous coffee that we started this last ruined. We were ruined. We literally are ruined. It’s almost terrible because I don’t buy coffee when we go out to restaurants anymore. I think there’s only been one place that I’ve gone to that I’ve liked the coffee. But what’s worse is that they didn’t have non-dairy creamer, so then I was kind of ruined on that regard. You know what.

Happened? We were actually at a restaurant and the coffee was so good and. And then one of the owners came over and this was just God’s provision. I think one of the owners came over and started geeking out about the coffee, and then he brought the beans over and he’s talking about it. And then he talks about how they’re from Italy and this is his family business, the coffee business. He also owns the restaurant. And and then we’re just getting into this conversation. He gives us the beans, we bring it home, we grind it, we make it. And it’s like. And I’m like, hey, can we have a meeting? I want to, I.

Want to sell your.

Coffee. I want to, I want, I want that to be be courageous. That needs to be. Be courageous. Coffee. Yeah. It’s so good.

So we partnered with them. Anyways, I am ruined though. This coffee is so good. Okay, but no, I yeah, I mean, well, we try to get coffee on date nights and that’s a little fine.

You find that little corner in a restaurant or a little corner somewhere. New new restaurants. I like seeing new restaurants. Um, having a good time together. You know, I, I’m looking forward to when she goes go karting with me next.

I just have to finish my chiropractor stuff because I’m worried about my back. But that is really fun. Yeah, but you know, what I’m excited about is our good friends that are opening up their coffee shop here in the Treasure Valley. We’re getting a new vista here.

Vista.

Eagle. You guys, if.

You’re so good at making lattes.

Or if you’re in bend, Oregon, there’s a vista there. That was their first one. We love Vista, so.

We do date nights there.

We will, we will be.

Yeah.

We used to when we lived in bend. Yeah.

So anyways that’s cool. So date nights you know what is what’s your favorite country we visited okay.

So people may not realize this. This is something that we haven’t actually talked a lot about. Um, well.

Hang on before you. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah.

So. So when we were first married, what was it, the first 14 years of our marriage? Ish. We did a lot of traveling.

Yeah, we would go on a, you know, at least a once a year trip. It seemed like unless your pregnancy was, you know, too.

Close to.

Home, and then we’d skip a year and. Yeah. So yeah, but we did.

We’ve been everywhere. We’ve been to France, we’ve been to London, we, England. We’ve been to Spain. Venezuela. No. You went to Venezuela, Argentina, Argentina. Um, yeah, we’ve been to Czech Republic, Rome, Hawaii.

It was fun. But that’s not another country. It seems like another country. But it’s not us. But.

Oh, but we’ve been all over. Um, what’s your favorite out of all of those?

Italy.

Hands down, hands down, hands down.

Italy is my favorite country to visit. I know it’s changed a bit. I don’t know, there’s lots of, uh, immigration and things like that, but I still think Italy is amazing. That was just. It’s so old. So much history. Um, actually, artwork, architecture ago, uh, cute little coffee shops and, you know, walking all over the place, renting a car that is the smallest car you can possibly rent, and it still doesn’t feel like it fits in the little alleyways and streets. Yeah. Um, no.

You really did love that. And then we went to the UK, remember? We went. We drove up the Rock of Gibraltar. That was really fun. I think that honestly though, my favorite, I love hot beaches, so it’s like a toss between the sandy beaches in Mexico and when we went to Saint Lucia.

On our honeymoon.

Yeah, I really still love that.

That was fun. You know, uh, we haven’t done a lot of traveling outside of the United States in the last ten years. Actually, we haven’t really done any.

Mhm. No. We’ve been arvine with our kids. It’s been it was.

The RV season all throughout the US.

Well, we got our RV 12 years ago now more than that it was a 2010.

Yeah. Yeah that and that was amazing because we could just go take our work from the road and do things and that was great. Okay. So we did date nights and how about.

Um, marriage challenges. Oh, we thought that it would be maybe encouraging for you guys to hear us share what some of our marriage challenges over the last 24 years have been.

You know, overall it’s been amazing. And yeah, um, we’ve always been rock solid in my opinion. And and we never have used the divorce word even in our vocabulary. Yeah. We don’t believe don’t believe in that. I didn’t believe in marriage until I met Angie. And then I became a Christian. And then I believed in marriage. I understood it, but for me to believe in marriage, you know, that word can’t be used. So, um. So anyways, you know, I think that our big challenge, though, is when I was building a company and it was struggling and I just got I got caught up, even though I understood it was important not to be caught up in it. I had payroll to pay for 40 plus employees, and the pressure in the challenges of that, uh, with a business partner too, and all that stuff was really hard for me to be 100% present with my family and make sure that we survive, because really, in my mind, if that didn’t make it, it felt like even though it wasn’t real sometimes. Men getting the cotton this these myths. But I, I felt like my financial life would be over forever. You almost feel like that because everything’s riding.

Invested everything.

In it. Everything’s on it. So, so much went into it and I felt so terrible. If we lost that and also it would be financial devastation. So that ended up being financial devastation. But God took us out of that and ended up being a really sweet. But during that there was probably a very.

Short way of putting.

It. It was probably a year and a half where our.

Marriage really was. It was it was just hard. There was not enough communication. There was miscommunication, misinterpretation, uh, not having accurate perceptions between one another. And part of it was literally that we weren’t spending enough time together. Time. Time was huge. And because he was building that business and like we had talked about it and we were a team, like making the decision to move forward. But I think that I assumed that the sacrifice of time would just be for a shorter season. And not so many years.

I thought so too, actually.

And that really that, you know, it just took its toll long time, especially having we had six kids at the time. And um, but God brought us closer through that, um, that I.

Had some I had some brothers in Christ that pulled me aside and just said, you got to stop, you got to stop. And so, you know, could the company have made it? Maybe. Probably not. I mean, God was challenging.

But.

But but, uh, but I, we stopped it and, uh, and that was the right thing. Yeah.

And so it was interesting because people thought that that was like the beginning of maybe the, the marriage struggles, like from my perspective. But that was actually the beginning of when it got better, better than ever because better than ever.

And it was really good before that year. Yes.

But I but I really believed though, that he was choosing us over the business. Whereas the past year and a half I had felt like he was choosing the business over us.

This ministry would have never happened if that other thing succeeded. I’m pretty confident in that.

No, it’s true, it wouldn’t have and I wouldn’t have had the time to continue just doing ministry the way I was on my own.

So maybe that encourages you. If you’re dealing with a tough time. God has a plan. He has a path and what’s what. The most important thing is that you stick. Stand firm in the faith. Trusting the Lord, walking strong with the Lord. Yes, surrender to the Lord. No pride, communication and God will take you out of that into something more beautiful. Uh, but make sure you ask. Remember the James one five through eight with no doubting yes, ask of faith.

So the second, you know, challenge, I would say it’s been a fruitful challenge also because every challenge can be, according to James one, the two through four, if you go and read the first, count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet trials of various kinds, um, because it produces perseverance and character and hope. Right? Love. And I love that verse. Anyways, um, you know, having children, we did not set out to have nine children. We’ve had 11 pregnancies. We did not have that model for us. We didn’t really know any families that were big families at first when we got married. No, like, I didn’t know any families that had more than I remember.

This one leader in the same kind of business I was doing that had six children, and he was an author. And I remember looking up to him and going, wow, how does he do all of that? And of course, his book was about spinning multiple plates at the same time and time management and business and stuff. Um, but, uh, you know, it doesn’t happen all at once. It’s one kid at a time, right? Capacity grows, you learn. But yeah, the wrestling. Wrestling with wrestling. We should we should we, you know, keep going with more kids and that kind of thing.

It’s a different kind of marriage challenge, if you will, in the sense of like, it was never a cookie cutter answer because of health issues, because of the sacrifice that it really was on our family. Um, and part of it was also the lack of help, you know, you know, when we had our first six kids, we lived in Portland. But any family that was close by was working full time. Right. And so, um, we really had to, like, choosing to have more children was, you know, and also keeping our marriage first meant we wanted to have date nights. So we would invest in babysitters, mothers, helpers, nannies, and we found really good people. But it was always like this, you know, there were many aspects. And I wanted to share that with you guys, because I think sometimes when you look at big families or anybody that’s doing ministry, that’s talking about, you know, family life, you can assume that it just was easy for them. You can assume that they always knew or they were confident or they were always on the same page. And and that’s just not a good assumption, at least for us. That was not the that wasn’t our journey. I’d had more refining to do in us. His spirit had more work to do in me and in Isaac, as we were constantly.

Hey, I remember, uh, two kids. Um, it seemed too hard to go anywhere because I was so used to. It was. I still remember when you and I could just jump in a car and do whatever we wanted, right? Go. Go out to eat wherever we wanted, go to movie. We loved eating. And remember when we were just newly married and going out to.

Nice restaurants.

Doing whatever we wanted to do. We used to jump.

In your fun convertible. Yeah.

And I and I remember, you know, the second baby came around, of course, I loved him both kids dearly, but I remember just the time it took to buckle them in. Buckle two kids in, I remember just I don’t know why, but I have this memory of being frustrated. Of being selfish. Yes, self-focused. Like it took everything, took more time. Or kids crying in the restaurant because they’re little and and being frustrated. I remember those early, early moments, and I’m so thankful that God has worked those things out. Now I still get frustrated about different things, but you know. Yeah, but but to to see that selfishness dismantle over time. Oh yeah, was really important growth.

And I think that’s really the special thing. Like I know that for me, I can pinpoint things that I’ve seen growth in you in and I’m sure you’ve seen growth in me as well. Um, but just in regards to patience, you know, sometimes I talk to moms who are like, oh, I could never homeschool. I’m not patient enough for that. That’s the most common thing that I hear on a regular basis. And I’m like, well, patience isn’t like a prerequisite for homeschooling. I feel like you grow in your patience as you’re challenged to be patient. Um, as you are surrendering and leaning into the Lord. And and there are situations where you lose patience, right? Or you get challenged in your patience, and then you’re at a crossroads where you have to either have self-control in the flesh, or you can have self-control in the spirit, um, or you don’t. Right. Like there’s three ways that can go, and it’s a growth process.

I think it would took me three kids. Once the third child came, I just go, I’m just all in, I surrender, I’m just dad. That’s. I’m just all in. That’s going to be my life. You’re so fine and I. But I remember that. I remember, like, just going, you know what? No. This is the most important thing. This is the journey that God has me on. And not too far after that, I’m like, hey, let’s have our fourth.

Yeah, it wasn’t until after our fourth where I was like, uh, I think I’m done now. I had a colicky baby, and it was it was hard.

Now I’m 47 with a two year old. It’s awesome.

You’re actually 48, babe, but that’s okay.

Oh, am I still on last year?

You are.

48. I’m closer to 50 now. That’s gonna be sweet. Well, that’s.

Good, because, you know, we are grandparents. We’re expecting our second grandchild.

I love getting I’ve always loved getting older. I still love getting older. I still love it. It is. It is.

True. He is that.

Way. It is so great.

I don’t know if I love getting older. I love the grandbabies.

Another marriage challenge is just time we find a way to get time, but it is really hard for us to communicate unless we hide somewhere.

Just kidding. Actually, that’s why we do this podcast, just so you know, so we can have time together. We find we.

Find ways to do it. Our kids are very respectful, very good about it. But we still do have three littles, so they are working on the respect thing. Yeah. Um, how about unique experiences? Let’s finish it with unique experiences. You know what’s what’s probably if.

You gotta go first. Because I’m thinking while you share. Okay.

I think a unique experience for me. I never met my real dad. And then I found out that he was, uh, going to be depicted in this movie. Remember the Titans just a couple of years after I found out about him? Maybe more like four years? After six years? Five years after, um, we were together. By the time we were found out we were together. You were pregnant with our first. Yeah. And, uh, went to the premiere of the movie. Denzel Washington spoke and there was politicians there. And we sat with the players, the real players, uh, depicted in the movie and the coaches. And it was it was it was really pivotal for me because we went to the they rented out the ESPN zone, I think, afterwards. And I went and sat with Coach Boone and Yoast, and they shared in the one of the little round things, little benches. We sat together and they shared about my dad. So that was really sweet to hear from the coaches because he was a he was a starting player and so forth. And then in the year of the movie was depicted and then, uh, and then walking around, one of the players walked me around and introduced me to the other players, uh, during this social thing. And they all shared something about my dad. So anyways, that was, I think, epic, right? For me.

I mean, for you to sit and hear stories about the dad that you never met from guys that he hung out with, played with, were comrades with. That was cool. That’s unforgettable. And that’s just really precious time. Yeah. You know, when there’s, you’re grabbing at straws for information about your dad and. Yeah. Yeah, it was really, really sweet. Um, yeah. That was and that was awesome that I got to witness that and be a part of that. Yeah, on a small scale. We had a six week old, so I spent some time pumping in the ESPN zone bathroom, and that was interesting. Um, yeah. But I would say a unique experience for me. Many of you guys probably know that I did do mission work overseas in Turkey, um, in Kadikoy, which is like the outskirts of Istanbul. Um, and that was before I met Isaac. I was 19, so this was 1998, 1998. And, um, the the part that I want to share with you, that was I mean, all of the entire time I was there was impactful. Coming home was impactful. Um, it really inspired me to really focus on the great Commission in my own hometown and realizing that I’m a missionary wherever I go.

It’s not like you put down your Bible or you. You take off your your passion like it’s a coat. You don’t take off your passion for Christ and sharing the gospel with other people like it’s a coat and hang it up on the shelf. No, like it’s part of who you are. Yeah, because you love him. And I remember coming home from that and being like this place, the spiritual warfare. It’s the same as in Turkey. It’s just I’ve been desensitized to it. Now God is opening my eyes to it, and I became really aware of that. Um, but one of the really fun, unique experiences that I think is kind of rare, not a lot of people experience this. I got to walk through six of the seven churches of revelation. The last few weeks of being in Turkey, being overseas there. And I’m telling you, I was doing a Bible study through Ephesians. I was reading front to cover of Ephesians and and it was taking me, you know, into acts chapter 17, where it talks about the Library of Celsus. And then I’m standing in the Library of Celsus in Ephesus, and I’m looking at the statues of Aphrodite and all these different Greek gods, and like, it just brought the Bible to life in a whole new kind of level, looking over the terrain, walking on some of the trails, walking during the place where the different apostles had been like.

It just was like crazy to me, right? Like going to Thessalonica, for example, and Latakia and the pools that are like calcified with. The calcium deposits where they have all these pools and they’re lukewarm, basically. And people come from all over the world to wait in these pools. And what’s interesting about it is that they’re not cold and they’re not hot. They’re like lukewarm, kind of like you can’t tell that you’re in water. It’s very odd. But then when you read in revelation where Paul is exhorting the church of Laodicea and he’s saying, don’t be lukewarm, I’d rather you be cold or hot, you know, don’t be lukewarm, I’ll spit you out. He’s literally referencing something that the people of that region fully understand. But when you’re reading the scripture, you’re like, well, that’s an interesting analogy. Why did he use that analogy? Right. But when you actually are there and you’re up on this hilltop looking down on the city, you get it.

And that was right before we met, like you were on that mission trip. And then you came home, right? Yeah.

And then I went to Mexico on another missions trip. And then I met you.

So two in that summer and then met me. And then she was sharing very shortly after I met her. She’s sharing Jesus with me, and I’m super skeptical, but I’m really into her. And she. And then she shares, she has this little picture book, and she’s sharing pictures of these.

Of Turkey and Mexico and our journey. And I asked you what your purpose in life was. Yeah. You remember.

That? Yeah. And then the police showed up. Yeah. That’s another story.

Well, they’re like, what are you guys talking about so late? And we’re like, I’m like, oh, I’m sharing with him about and I start evangelizing. It wasn’t the.

Best area of town of Portland, that’s for sure.

Yeah. He was just worried about me about.

Two in the morning.

But it was neat because we got to I got to share part of the gospel with the police officer. It was cool.

Wherever she went, she was sharing the gospel. She was contagious for Christ, that’s for sure. I didn’t even know Christ, but she was. She had something different in her, the Holy Spirit. But the Lord seemed super charged to me.

But you know, we’ve had a lot of unique experiences in our lifetime. We’ve lived a life, that’s for sure, and we’re super thankful for it. Maybe you kind of chuckled as we reminisced on some of those memories.

I think our first grandchild is a experience that we’re sharing right now. That is super special. It is just really special. We look forward to having all the grandchildren coming.

Home and visiting. Yeah, taking care of mom.

Well, hey, I hope you got some nuggets out of there. Don’t forget that marriage challenge. What’s your spouse’s favorite scripture right now and why? Though I think the why is the real good discussion.

No, it’s good. And thank you to every one of you who’s been around listening to the podcast for a while. You guys are so many great episodes in all of the seasons, as we’re going to be heading into a new season again soon. I’m imagining because we are. This is our fifth anniversary, right? Absolutely. And so thank you to all of you who have been with us all these five years. And to those of you who’ve joined us in the last year, there’s so much that we want to share with you guys and we’re happy you’re here. Hey, thanks for listening and being a part of the 10 Million Legacies movement, go to Be Courageous Ministry. Org for more biblically based resources, ways to switch where you spend your money that support the mission and information about the incredible Be Courageous app community for believers.

Also, we wanted to quickly tell you about our six week online Parenting Mentor program.

Isaac and I created a powerful biblical curriculum. Here’s how it works. Each week, we release a video session with a downloadable parenting packet to make it easy for you to incorporate those teachings directly into your parenting.

This is an incredible, self-paced program. We cover everything from tending to their hearts, handling obedience to overcoming mistakes most Christians are making. But more than that, it’s a supportive community. You’ll have access to our private group in the Be Courageous app, live webcast, and direct access to us.

If you’re interested in joining our next online Parenting Mentor program, secure your spot now at Be Courageous Ministry. Org that’s Be Courageous ministry.org.